WOT 44: Fish Art, Carp, and Salt Water Fly Fishing with Derek DeYoung

In this episode we Wadeoutthere with Derek DeYoung.  Derek is an artist who paints the fish that he chases on the fly in his own life, from casting to carp in Michigan to shooting line for permit and tarpon in the Florida Keys.  We discuss Derek’s approach to his art and fishing, as well as the parallels he draws between them.

If you want to view or purchase Derek's art,  visit his website at:
https://www.derekdeyoung.com/

If you want more information on some of the topics we discussed try reading these blog posts from Wadeoutthere:

https://wadeoutthere.com/the-two-best-times-for-experimenting-on-the-river/

For more fly fishing stories, lessons learned, and artwork check out my blog and online gallery at: 
https://wadeoutthere.com/

Visit WadeOutThere.com/art for 10% off your first original painting or limited edition print from show host and artist Jason Shemchuk

Newsletter Sign-Up . Sign up for emails with new podcast episodes, blog articles, and updates on artwork from Jason.

Transcript

Jason 0:00

In this episode, we wait out there with Derek DeYung. Derek is an artist who paints the fish he chases on the fly in his own life, from casting to carpon, Michigan, to shooting line for Permit and Tarpon in the Florida Keys. We discuss Derek's approach to his art and his fishing, as well as the parallels he draws between them. Welcome to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Shepchuk. At Wade Out There, we believe fly fishing is special, but not elite, and that anyone can become a great fly fisher if they are willing to go, learn, and teach. Join me as I talk with other fly fishermen and women about their unique journeys into fly fishing, the rivers they fish, and the tactics and philosophies they practice. For those who can never leave the river in their hearts, this podcast is dedicated to helping you make the memories that keep us all coming back to Wade Out There. Welcome, Derek. Thanks for being on the Wade Out There podcast. It's a pleasure to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, man.

Jason 1:08

You know, I ever since I saw your work, I've just been so impressed with your ability to keep pumping out all this amazing art and then go fly fishing all the time too. And uh I sometimes I wonder, are you I know you're doing more art than fly fishing? It's my assumption that you are, but it do they ever do the two things ever collide where you're like I need to stop painting because I have to go fly fishing, or or vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

It is one of those balances that kind of corrects itself. I've gotta I've gotta get up and work and uh you know, but if during a week we've got low wind, and um I'm not gonna concentrate that well when all my buddies are posting pictures of tarpon and permit and bone fish. So I might as well just get out there and get it out of my system. But that being said, um, you know, my business doesn't adhere to weekends, so uh a lot of times just the way it goes, the weekends are all windy and cold front, and I just you know I work those days, so right.

Jason 2:10

And are you living up in Michigan? Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Um, we live up in Michigan during the summer. We're down here in the Florida Keys during the winter.

Jason 2:20

Okay, so you go back and forth between the two. Yep. Um cool. Well, maybe we'll talk a little bit later a little bit more about where you like to go in those areas. But first I want to ask you kind of the same sort of question. But when you were when you were a kid, I know from your website that you were an artist at an early age and you were you're always the the the artist in the class and that type of thing. Was it the same way with fly fishing? And can you tell us a little bit about growing up as an artist and knowing that that that's what you liked and enjoyed, and then how that interacted with your with your outdoors and fly fishing?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

You know, growing up, it was it's weird because the uh town I grew up in, Grand Haven, Michigan, is a very um, I mean, it's right on Lake Michigan. It's got the Grand River going through it and a bunch of different bayous that you can. I lived on one of them in um great fishing, duck hunting, stuff like that. Very, very natural place, but none of my friends were into the outdoors.

Jason 3:22

Really?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And I was that weird kid who would like you know put them in waiters and bring them out for an evening session of duck hunting, and they're like, My waiters were leaking, and I was freezing cold, and I'm like, that's that's a normal day in the swamp for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

We didn't have nice waiters to put on to go out there. My dad was yeah, wasn't gonna put a bunch of money into that. Um I would uh bring them up. Bill's character. I would take them out fishing, and uh if the fish were biting, I'd get them on the oars, you know, just the old rowboat oars, and I and I would be firing casts and catching uh largemouth bass. And to this day they razz me and they're like, We could not get you to go home. Like you just you would fish till pitch black. But you know, hopefully I I uh gave them some fun experiences out there.

Jason 4:21

Well, that's cool that you're still friends with some of them that you still see them and uh they still are around to razz you. I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Well, we're all over the country, but we you know, these days you can just get on a call once in a while or a tech stream.

Jason 4:35

Yeah. Were were you fly fishing then too? Or where where did that did that come from within, or did your family kind of get you into the outdoors?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

For sure, my family. I mean, um the my dad showed me this letter uh from like you know great-great grandfather or something, and it describes his life. He was the first one of my dad's line um in in West Michigan. I think they came over from the Netherlands or something, and um anyway, it describes that he would fish all summer and sell the fish in uh description, yeah, and it described it described a giant fish that was like over a hundred pounds that he caught. So it must have been a sturgeon. Yeah, but you know, that it's just weird how things like that kind of are in your blood. And uh, you know, my uncles, yeah, my grandfather, my dad, my brothers, my nephews. We all just totally love it and yeah, would rather be doing that. I I remember as a kid, we'd go to the um there was a place called Michigan's Adventure. It was like a amusement park in water park. And I'd go on a few of the rides, but then I'd go over to the lake and look in there, and there were huge bass. And they didn't allow any fishing, of course, but I'm just like, let's just go home. I'd just rather be fishing than be here.

Jason 6:06

I've been motivated. Yeah, that is interesting. I think sometimes even maybe it skips a generation or something because I've I've talked to people where it's they say, you know, my grandfather uh loved to fish, but my father didn't take me or something like that, and they have this experience, but it sounds like it was all all your family kind of upbringing and history.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah, I mean, it was what was available, and I I loved it.

Jason 6:33

Um that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

We were always really competitive about who caught what, and me being the youngest uh son, uh, I always had a lot to prove.

Jason 6:43

So really okay. How many how many siblings do you have?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

I've got two older brothers and then you know, cousins and and my brothers, my brothers' friends, and uh yeah, so I I uh I worked pretty hard to show them what was up.

Jason 7:00

Yeah, I wrote a blog post called Don't Keep Score, and it was all about when I personally kind of realized that the competitive edge I had a little bit when I would go fish with my brother, like that it was it was eking into the like I don't know that I want to like keep track as much as I as I do, you know. But that's brother stuff, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Well yeah, uh I run I shouldn't say run, but I I host a a little bass tournament, just uh for fun bass tournament. And um I we've got my you know friends and cousins and and brother and my dad all come and camp on my um front yard. We're we're on a lake up in northern Michigan, and um anyway, my brother won the whole thing last year out of like a four winds like ski boat, you know, and everybody else has proper fishing boats. Proper. We did not uh yeah, they he he uh talked a big game all night long. Let's just say that.

Jason 8:02

All right. Do you fish with your did you fish a lot with your father as well as a child?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Um, yep, absolutely. Um, that was the main thing we would do is uh fish. Uh I was talking to him the other day about, you know, I don't go through winters anymore. It's been it's been over 10 years since I've really uh lived through an entire winter. I know everyone loves me for that, but I mean I grew up doing doing the winter thing, and and my dad um he knew how to get through a winter. Every single weekend we'd go to a lake and try to catch, oh we'd oh they're the pike are all right. They're getting them on they're getting them on tip-ups over at this lake. We got and I would get so excited. What was so funny is like we almost never caught anything, but you know, it was always like, oh, they're getting them up at Muskegon Lake off this certain place, and we'd go, we wouldn't know really what we were doing, and but it would we always had a blast. Um, I'd bring my ice skates as a kid and ice skate around, and uh my dad would bring usually when uh we would go uh ice fishing, he would bring venison and he'd make venison on a stove out there on the ice, and then when we'd go deer hunting, um he'd bring fish, which I really like think that makes sense because I don't want to eat deer when I'm deer hunting. It does make sense. Yeah, I would rather have some walleye or something.

Jason 9:34

Well, I want to if it's okay, I want to read something from your uh from your website because we're talking about family, and I mentioned earlier how um just how amazing that you know, not just the beautiful artwork that you put out, but just how it's kind of so much a part of you, what you do. And I think we were talking a little bit before this about that. Um, but this is about this is from your about page, and it's uh it's about um when you know you are an artist and kind of deciding about how you were going to proceed if you're gonna follow your your kind of passion. Yeah. Uh and says it's a little bit long, so I apologize, but during my four years in art school, it seemed apparent that they might want the student body to be prepared for failure. The professors would refer to the one or two that might make it as an artist in the real world. They described the jobs out in that real world as few and far between, with all the artists competing for it and willing to do it for very little money. It seemed like they might be producing us to consider uh prodding us to consider a plan B. And then what I think is so special, and it's one of the things that really compelled me to want to talk to you, because I know um how passionate you are about your art, is when you say a couple nights later, I made a phone call to my dad. I told him that I was reconsidering my degree. What he said that day, I still consider it to be one of the most important conversations in my life. He told me, You've known that you were going to be an artist since you were a little kid. Derek, this is all you've ever wanted. Now is the time to take a chance on making that dream come true. You've got your whole life to take whatever job you need, whatever job you need to, and take care of all your responsibilities. But now, while you're young, is when you have got to go for the gusto. You have to go after your dreams and do your best to make it. If you don't try now, you will always wonder what if for the rest of your life. Um, dude, when I read that, like I almost got emotional just reading it right now because it's just so I just think it's so amazing on so many levels. First, that you knew you know who you were enough to to have that, and then the relationship you have with your father to be able to to have him support you in pursuing your dreams. And I I think I see it in just the life that you're leading with the fishing and the art, and it's like this is who this person is. And so just uh I don't know, man, just a pat on the back from Jason Chemchak. Like, I just think it's great that you got that you did that. Um, you know, I just think it's it's rare to see, and I really appreciate it when I see it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

It's funny because you reading that it almost makes me emotional, but uh you know it's insane how much and how important um supportive family is. Um it's easy to do the convenient thing, and it's easy to just uh do the status quo. Um, but anyone who knew me knew I would never be happy doing that, and that's not um to take away from uh being a responsible family member and and parent and and doing what you gotta do to put food on the table. I respect the heck out of that. But um that just was not the path that I knew I mean I it was one of those internal things that I knew I was meant for this um from early childhood. And it's yeah, um if I wasn't if I wasn't doing it, I'd I know I wouldn't feel fulfilled.

Jason 13:20

What's been the most special thing for you about living deliberately and doing that as you've progressed into now seeing, you know, I don't want to say proving proving them wrong, proving them wrong from art school or or just saying like, yeah, it's hard, but I am I'm making a life for myself doing this.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

What's been well you know, um I never uh thought of it like proving anybody wrong as much as I felt like um I was trying to fulfill my potential. Um I knew I had it in me to be a good artist. And um you know, every day that's what I set out to to be. And um and it's uh it's not easy. Um you you've got to walk that fine line of being your absolute toughest critic. Um but you can't beat yourself up so much that you just become depressed because it you can do that. Um I I uh critique and and uh pick my own work apart um so much so that I'll totally start over painting it. I think people think that uh you know they see the end product and I think it comes off. I think my work kind of comes off as kind of easy breezy some to some people, but um there's oftentimes a struggle that is not evident in the in the end product that occurred beforehand.

Jason 17:18

Um yeah, well they say the good a good artist makes it look easy too, right? The the strokes and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

So that I think it's true. Um if it looks labored, if it looks like it was, you know, just chewed on for too long, right? It gets stagnant and it loses its energy. The you know, the fresh um looks like you you do it every day and it's ain't no thing, um, somehow that has that energy, um, that kind of un undefinable quality of the art.

Jason 17:56

Yeah. Was it obvious as well? So you knew you had it in you and you you knew this was what you were going to do or what you should do. Was your subject matter always around fish and fly fishing and the outdoors, or did that evolve as you evolved as a fly fisherman, or were were those connected?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

That's it. This is what I've done. Fish. Um, I uh I I got uh a subscription for my birthday to In Fisherman when I was a kid, and I would look at the cover and some of the illustrations, and I'm just like this guy's amazing. Like I, you know, try to do my artist, you mean? Yeah, yeah. I can't remember his name. I wish I could, but he would he deserves the credit. But um I would, you know, look at that and and uh I you know if you read my about page, uh you probably stumbled across the part where um you know, even at a young age, I was I was a cocky little shit. And I I really did think I was uh pretty damn good. And and uh it it took uh I entered a state youth wildlife art competition, and it took um going there, showing up at the state capitol with like my family, like you know, my brothers, mom and dad, um my cousin uh who was older, she was going to Michigan State. She took time to come over to I think it was at some mall that they set it up at. Anyway, I was 100% sure I won the whole thing. And uh I'm loving the story, I'm loving it. And and they all 100% believed I won the whole thing too. There's no way anyone could beat me, right? I mean, uh right, I've been doing this and and they yeah, they all believed it too, and we were all shocked to find that uh no, I did not win, and I didn't even I think there was like 20 honorable mentions, I didn't even get one of those. And uh on the way home from that, it was a long time ago, but I still remember uh no one was talking, and I'm in the backseat and I'm just like sulking, and uh my dad all of a sudden is like mad, and he's like, Hey, quit sulking back there. You know, everything that won at that competition was a painting, and you don't know how to paint. So, you know what? We're gonna get you in art lessons, we're gonna teach you to paint. So that's it. That's fine.

Jason 20:36

Oh, okay. I messed and missed that. You said it though, but you they were all drawings that you brought.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Is that I I entered uh graphite, you know, pencil drawing. And uh so it took that to A make me realize there's a lot of good artists out there, yeah, and B, um I've gotta like even now as a kid, I can't just rest on my laurels. I've gotta start getting better and learn more. And so I started taking lessons from uh local artists, and um that was really the beginning of me kind of realizing this is gonna be my life, like I'm gonna be a painter.

Jason 21:16

And right what was funny, and the work of it, the work like I'm gonna take lessons and I am not just gonna I'm not just gonna be a natural, like I'm gonna work and I'm gonna get I'm gonna do the things that I'm not good at to get better at them because I'll grow. Sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yep. I don't know if I could have put it that eloquently back then, but I I knew I wanted to win that damn competition. And uh, you know, you know what they gave as uh prizes to the first like you know three positions was uh saving bonds, savings bonds. And uh I didn't understand what a savings bond was, I just thought it was cash money. So I had uh I can't buy paint with this. Well, I didn't want to buy paint, I wanted to buy a new fishing rod.

Jason 22:06

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And uh I I ended up taking second the next year, and I got the savings bond, and and my dad's like, Well, uh I'll put this uh away for safekeeping. I'm like, what? Like it's enough. I can buy the rod I want. No, it doesn't mature for 10 years, bud. Oh man. Do they even have those anymore?

Jason 22:34

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I have never I have not heard one person say the word savings bond it since I was a kid.

Jason 22:41

Yeah, that's a good story, though. Um I'm really enjoying your father your impression too. That's good. That's good that's a good part. Um when you so you said you're trying to get a rod even then, so and you and you always loved the fish and seeing the pictures of fish, and so for you when you're fly fishing, is that a part of the process? Because like so, I saw you post one time. This is what I'm talking about. You you went steelhead fishing. So you you show I'm I'm going steelhead fishing, you catch this amazing steelhead, and then like two days later, you've painted this thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I mean, it was I think I painted it like four times.

Jason 23:29

Oh, you started over, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

No, I painted like four of them, yeah.

Jason 23:33

I yeah, I mean, but it was like you're so excited, like look at what I've look at this amazing fish that not just the fish, but the experience. Yeah, and then and then to see you just like transform it, like, and here it is. I've I've brought it back. It's something that I really feel like when I see your work, I'm seeing your adventures and your like it's a really tied into it.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Well, you know, um when I kind of the early days um of doing this fish art thing, I felt like I had to be the painter of all fish. Anything that my clients or anybody wanted, you know, I had to have that, and people still to this day constantly God Bless them, but badger me about what fish I'm not doing. And oh, really? I have made a conscious decision to be inspired by the things that I do and um and let those things be the dictator of my art and not focus on trying to do everything. Um, therefore, I don't want to paint a uh whatever you call it cutthroat from that lake out west, Jurassic Lake or whatever it is. Like I'm I'm not there. I'm not there pyramid like that. Yeah, yeah. I'm not out there. I don't know about that. I haven't seen one of those things hit my flag, and therefore, that's not what I am drawing. That's not what I'm thinking about when I close my eyes at night.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

And so let another artist who has done that, um, portray that and show their passion for what they did and saw. And I'm gonna do what I, you know, because I'm I'm super lucky and I get to be in some amazing fisheries. And um for sure. I don't want to tell you about those because that's what I most authentically know about, and I think the longer I do this, the more I I realize authenticity is impossible to fake. And um people see it, people look at the work, and they know um whether your heart is in it and whether, you know, if we were to apply this to poetry, uh, have someone who's never been in love do a poem about love. I mean, come on, it's not gonna be it's not gonna move you. Um so I think that way, and I I uh the the longer I do this, the more I want to um really focus on some of those finer, more obscure details of what I'm seeing in in the fisheries that I'm personally um you know a part of.

Jason 26:27

So can we talk a little bit about those fisheries? Can that you're passionate about? Yeah. I mean I think you said Michigan and then down in Florida Keys, and then you go out to Montana a little bit, but you want to start maybe with uh Michigan and and the and the fly fishing you do out there and what you like to paint and why is it you like to paint these things because those are the types of fish you go after and and that?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And I need to do that more in Michigan, really, but the market's a little bit weird there. Um as far as uh you know, I I predominantly fish uh Lake Michigan or or a bay on Lake Michigan, and um so you know, carp um on fly, which you know has been extremely challenging to get anywhere with that whole thing. Um it's not like people say it's like bone fish. I have no idea what you're talking about if you're one of those people who say that because it doesn't translate at all. Um carp are easy to find, bone fish are in the keys at least, bone fish are hard to find. Um carp are super easy to find and super hard to feed. Bone fish are super easy to feed. So they're opposites, but yeah, like when they say, Oh, it's it's the freshwater bone fish, it's well it's sight fishing, they look nothing alike, they don't act alike.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

They definitely don't look alike.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

But you know, it's sight fishing, sight casting, and once you get addicted to sight casting, um, I understand, you know, that's the that's the comparison. But um, you know, with carp, it it's crazy. I mean you can you can cast uh 40 straight carp that just don't want I mean you almost just go, what is wrong with my fly? Like they run from it or totally ignore it. And on the 41st fish you see, all of a sudden, boom, you get one, and you're kind of back in the game and addicted to it again. And um it's pretty cool.

Jason 28:47

What makes it addicting? Is it they fight really good?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I've heard they're good fighters, and um is it just fighting has fighting has very little to do with it. But I people say that, but you know, if you fish saltwater, um, you know, uh a small Jack Cravel fights five times harder than a um carp. So in the scheme of things, it's not a very good fighter, but you know, they're a bulldogger, and and it's fun too. I mean, I use pretty light gear with a carp. I'll use you know a six-weight sometimes, and you know, I can usually get them back. Um, or sometimes they don't fight that hard. But no, it's just a challenge. Um I I think of uh sight casting as kind of like uh grouse hunting with a shotgun. Um you've gotta pull up and you gotta make a shot now. And if you don't, you know, you're not gonna get them. And that's gotta it's gotta be accurate.

Jason 29:49

Yeah. What kind of flies do you use?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Um you know, what I've found to work up there is crayfish or um or the like goby uh, you know, little goby flies. Um tend to work best. But you know, you just have to have the right weight too, depending on how deep the fish are running. You can be accurate, um, but if you plop a big piece of lead in front of their face in shallow water, they ain't gonna bite. Uh so if they're up shallow, you gotta you gotta reflect that with you know whatever your favorite fly is, you gotta tie it um with less weight all the way to really heavy if they're out in eight feet of water.

Jason 30:38

But you're but you enjoy the sight fishing of it and then putting the reps in and then getting that one take.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yep. And then sometimes you just catch seven in a row, and you I was on I was on one side of a peninsula and there was a a guideboat on the other, which I don't see many guideboats out there for carp, but um they had already worked the side that I came in on, and I asked them if it was okay if I shot in there, and they said that was fine. And I think I caught three carp and they came back around and they're like, Okay, we saw you land those. What flyer are you using? We've we just fish that water and we've been over here and haven't fed one, and so you know, sometimes I guess it makes a big difference, but yeah.

Jason 31:25

What about what about down in Florida? Are you where in the keys are you at?

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Um uh big pine, so kind of lower keys.

Jason 31:36

Okay, and you're going out on flats for bone fish and and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Um, yep, redfish, bonefish, uh tarpon, um permit, jacks, kudas, all kinds of fun critters out there.

Jason 31:55

Do you go a lot when you're down there? I I mean do you have a are you painting down there and up in Michigan and doing both all the time?

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Uh yeah, I'm always painting. Um although you know I can take uh I can kind of wear myself out and take some time off, but yeah, no, when I'm down here too, I I try to only paint saltwater when I'm down here.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

And I and I try to uh focus on my trout and warm water species up north. So um when I'm scheduling jobs, I that's one thing I really consider.

Jason 32:34

Do you go just by yourself or do you take uh the fam with you ever?

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Um out on the flats?

Jason 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

I'll take uh Janelle and the dog with me sometimes. Um she's uh hell of a harder worker than I am, so she doesn't take that girl doesn't take many days off, let me put it to you that way. And uh but the days that I get her out there, um, which might be you know maybe once or twice a month, she loves it. She sits up on the polling platform and spots sharks and rays and kudas, and she thinks it's pretty cool.

Jason 33:11

Sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah, I mean it's it's like an eco tour. I mean, yeah, you can, especially when you're sightcasting, you're not constantly fishing, you're looking for a specific fish.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

And uh so you're but you if you're seeing life, you're probably in the right zone.

Jason 33:29

Is it easy to get around to different places? Do you have to go far with your boat to to get to where you need to be, or is it all pretty close by to the house?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

You can um it's everywhere. Well, I mean, it's it depends on the day. Um, there's a ton of water. Fish use or fish are caught in you know small bits of that water. So it took it took me a while to figure that out. Um, and uh, but I've learned a little bit more every year, and um yeah, sometimes we run a long ways, and sometimes fish right here. I I uh um was headed out just out. I worked until like three, and I was gonna go out and just you know, get a little outdoor time really uh after work. And as I was running out, I saw a splash, and I kind of looked at the splash and I swore I saw a tarpon tail kind of within the splash, like slow, slowly sink down into the water, like and it was a big tarpon. And uh so I turned around and hit spot lock just you know um adjacent to where I saw that fish, and uh I tie these um these bucktail jigs that I like to use, and I took a spinning rod and threw it upstream of uh where I saw the tarpon and let it sink to the bottom and then just kind of high sticked it through there and uh first cast through BAM! And uh I end up catching just like a little 11-inch long jack. Second cast, catch another one of those jacks, just cookie cutter. And after about nine of them, I'm going, you know, I think most people would leave now because it's obviously just jacks, yeah. But in my mind's eye, I had this perfect vision of like three or four monster tarpon laying down there near near the bottom in this school of jacks swimming around them. And I've seen before, because I like to do uh I like to video underwater, and I've seen before where small fish can get big game fish kind of on the feed, you know, they kind of swarm and start feeding, and then it kind of gets them thinking about eating too. So I'm like, I'm just gonna keep going. I'm gonna catch every one of these jacks, I don't care. So cast back up, and about like after the 11th jack, I get bit and I set the hook, and the water just explodes, and about 120-pound tarpon fires out of the water, lands, tears off like 20 yards of drag, and then just starts greyhounding for the distance, and and the hook ended up popping out. And uh, I'm just like, okay, that's all I needed.

Jason 36:17

I reeled up and I went back home and because you figured it out too, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:22

You well, it was just I had this vision, I thought yeah, this this I think this is gonna work. I'm gonna continue till I get it. And and when it worked, I was surprised, trust me. But um yeah, but yeah, it's I I always do think that artists uh tend to make good fishermen simply because of our imagination. If you can't you know, if you're if you're not an imaginative imaginative person, um and you're fishing, you're just like I there's nothing happening, it's over. Let's go. Let's go somewhere.

Jason 36:56

I'm not catching fish.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

If you yeah, if you've got that imagination where you're like, no, but something is gonna happen, or they are down there, they're just not eating yet. And you know, it it does keep you going.

Jason 37:08

That's cool. That's a great insight. Appreciate that. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got down to the keys? Like, when did that happen? So you grew up in Michigan. Um, you love fish, you're an artist, and was it the natural I just got into saltwater fly fishing and got down there? Or can you tell me a little bit about that part of your life?

SPEAKER_00 37:29

It was uh it's one of those childhood things, Saturday mornings up in northern Michigan, freezing cold outside during the winter. I'm watching Walker's K Chronicles and uh Jose Wajibe and those guys uh fish the flats and poetically talk about the the you know birds and the flats and the fish. And I'm like, this is speaking my language.

Jason 38:01

Okay. I want to do this. I can't so it's part of the dream. It's part of the dream.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

And uh I love it. Um when uh I was in art school, my roommates um aunt and uncle had uh a restaurant in Marathon, and they hosted us on our spring break, and they had a little uh it was like 14 or 16 foot Hobie skiff with like a 40-horse two-stroke Johnson. I still remember. It's a great little boat, and there it was just at our disposal, whatever we wanted to do. And uh, we ran all the way around Marathon 500 times in that week and a half that we were there and fished every day. And I'm like, I will live here one day. I've got to figure it out because I just was so intrigued. So like when you go from from you know freshwater to saltwater fishing, uh some of the some of the skills transfer, but the environment, the animals are all different, and I mean you feel like you're a little kid again, you know, you see these things, and and the thing about the ocean that I absolutely adore is you have no idea what's gonna happen any day you're out there. I mean, it's the ocean, stuff comes in from you know, wherever they migrate in, it there could be nothing on a flat one day and it's filthy the next day. Um, so I just love seeing all those different you know creatures out there, and uh and where we're at too, there's a lot of uh seabirds and different stuff. I mean, uh just to watch a fricket bird um follow a shark and uh just across the flat and and the shark will spook fish off to the side and the fricate comes down and picks them off. I mean, if I just see something like that, count it as a great day in my life.

Jason 40:08

Yeah, I can relate a little bit, like I might not catch a fish this day, but if I see a bunch of uh bighorn sheep come down to the water, you know, like it's yeah, it's a good day. That was super fun, and I still I mean, I'm I didn't get skunk that day, but I'm just thinking of a day where I didn't have the best day fishing, but you see stuff like that, or I was on the river with my father and brother one day, and like we look up, there's this eagle fighting, you know, talons out with an osprey like right above us. And I mean, that's one of my best fly fishing memories, and there wasn't even a fish involved, you know. But I don't know if that speaks to my fly fishing skills, or it just uh it's just a great story, but yeah, I can imagine you see some awesome stuff out there.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

You know, I fished extremely aggressively for a lot of years and was very kind of like you were talking about competitive with other people, and I loved fish with people who are really good so I could learn and get better. And uh I think like as time goes on, maybe it's because I'm getting older, or maybe it's just enough fish under my belt that you know I I have a different take on fishing than I used to, and I'm a little bit more chill and a little bit more into just the experience. And I I went out with my buddy uh trying to get my first permit on fly. Um, and if you've gotten a permit on fly, that's amazing. That's a huge feat, and a lot of things had to go right for that to happen. Those things have always somehow gone wrong for me personally, and uh I um but it does not mean that it is not a super fun game. I can't think of anything I think is more fun. I mean, the kind of the like stage fright, your hands are kind of cold and clammy, you're holding that rod, you're like, oh god, I hope I don't mess this up, and and here they are, you spot them and they're coming right in, everything's right, and you're like, you've got that second in your brain where you're like, this is it, it's gonna happen to me. I'm gonna get this one, I'm not gonna screw this up. You make a terrible cast or a good cast. I mean, they they don't cooperate even if everything goes right. Um, yeah, or they sometimes do. I hope they I hope someday soon they do for me. But uh, I did feed one last time I was out, and that was cool, but I got yelled at because somehow um it was my fault that I didn't get them. It was literally like as I'm stripping the fly, it just was like tightening, like, you know, wasn't like I felt them running with it and didn't set the hook. It was just a microsecond of him grabbing it. But I think he hit it towards me is what happened, you know what I mean? And so there was some a little bit of uh slack in the line.

Jason 43:02

Little slack. I think you make a good point when you said fish under your belt, you know, as you get older. I think even I even see it even on a day on the river, or if you take a fly fishing trip and maybe the first day you catch a bunch of fish, it seems like maybe the pressure's off the second day to like, uh, I had a great day yesterday, and it I enjoy some of the other things a little bit more. And then maybe that's a smaller scale, but on a bigger scale, if you've stretched that out, not on a two or three day trip, but like over a lifetime, you've had those good days, so now you're it opens you up maybe to enjoy some of those other things, and I think it depends on the person too. If if you're not as competitive, then maybe you never have those feelings. I don't know. Those those are things I deal with, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:49

I I know people who don't have that like intense competitive part to their personality, and I I guess I uh um envy that, but that's not me. Yeah, grow growing up with brothers, you had to fight to uh you know make your mark, and that stays with you for life.

Jason 44:09

Do you go with a guide down there or how did you learn? So you had the kind of the vision in your and the great experience as a child of going down there. So when you got down there, and you know, how did you you say you learn a little bit every year? Do you is it a mix of going by yourself and going with guides, or vice versa? I guess I'm kind of asking what kind of advice would you give to somebody that wants to go down there and and get started?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Um yeah, that's a good question. No, a lot of my friends that guide have taught me um a lot about the fishery, but you know, at the same time, everybody's got their own style and and uh and it really is um you know the the the most difficult parts of the fishing down here, which would be you know constantly being able to find and feed game fish, uh a fly. Um it's difficult. It it really is. And uh the other thing that kind of maybe holds you back a little bit or that I found is that there's other things going on that are much easier. Um so you know what do you mean by that? So like if you go all day checking flats trying to find, you know, a permit, you're the amount of success you're gonna have is very limited. I mean, unless you're you're just mature enough to say, well, that's all right. Right. I saw a couple, and and that's what you eventually have to do, and that's kind of what where I'm at now. But for a lot of years, I felt like I had to catch fish to have fun. So um to to sacrifice all that time when there was other things happening, like there's a huge school of Jack Kravel, like right off in the channel, that you can put a popper on and throw it across there and pop it as fast as you can. And I mean, you'll catch one every cast. And it's super I mean, it's so much fun. Yeah. Um, so you end up doing other things, uh, CUDA, um You know, going to the bridges and fishing. Um there's so many different programs um for inshore fishing down here that you can get into, and and uh sight casting for game fish is just one of them.

Jason 46:32

I understand. So yeah, if you want to be if you want to deliberately do this thing or target that fish, then you gotta put the time in, and there's a lot of distractions for other fun things to do.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

There's a lot going on, yeah.

Jason 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

And and some of the other things are maybe a little bit more low-hanging fruit for someone who doesn't, you know, have the knowledge of where to look and find all the game fish. I I'll give you an example. Um, I took my neighbor out, and kind of the deal with that is he wants to catch fish for dinner, and um I get that. And so I and I'm I'm good at that. Um, so we will go and and we'll catch um whatever snappers or yellowjack or something. And once we get that, then we go look for game fish. And and he has a good time doing that, and and he also knows he's gonna have dinner that night. That guy loves to eat fish. Um, so I took I took him uh on this big grass flat and uh I swore I saw a redfish. And um we didn't get them, but I kind of kept looking. I saw another one. I kind of I put the power pole down, and we just sat there. And over the next hour and a half, I think I landed uh like 12 redfish, all big ones on fly. Um, and he landed like seven. I mean, he's he's an old dude, and he can't see as well as he once could, but I mean he still landed seven on a jig on a spinning rod. That's the best day of redfishing down here I've ever had. Um, I've gone and tried to replicate at least some of that at that same spot, probably seven or eight times, and I've seen one red fish. And I mean, I'm there at the same tide.

unknown 48:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

I don't understand why. It's it's not as easy as you might think.

Jason 48:37

Oh, I don't think it's easy. I've heard a lot of hard. Yeah. What about having a boat? You kind of need to have a boat to do what you're doing, right? I mean, or is there places around there that you don't need it?

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Um, you know, uh, I'm a boat guy. So, I mean, I I uh from the gates uh wanted my own boat, used my dad's or borrowed my dad's boat, bought a boat as soon as I could, have always rents on them and um and loved them, and it's always been a part of my life. Boats are an absolute pain in the ass, especially once you get a saltwater boat, because um they're uh the wires are going bad. You have to learn the you know to deal with problems, uh problem shooting, why this doesn't work. And I'll tell you what, I've I've tried to fix a pump, and three hours in my helm had no power. And I'm like, wow, I shouldn't have done this now. I can't even fish. Before I just couldn't have them bait well, but now and then I end up, you know, uh 11:30 at night at a friend's house, pulled a boat over there. They got spotlights out and a case of beer and ripped all my wires out and like ran another wire up through and got my home working. Um, yeah. So it wasn't good that they used like a cord from like an old uh cable uh like connection, but but I could fish from I could fish for a while.

Jason 50:10

Got the job done, yeah. Do you have um what rig do you use when you're saltwater fishing? Do you have multiple that you use like rods and stuff? What weight, I guess, is what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Well, the um kind of the do-all is the 10 weight. Um, you'd be surprised uh how hard even a smaller saltwater fish fights, but it is fun to do it with a smaller rod too, but you don't need that if you're gonna do one thing, you know, um 10 weight would be what I'd recommend.

Jason 50:43

Um it's a good kind of overall average kind of game fish.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Yeah, and and uh you know if you're gonna do adult tarpon and that's your focus, then you need the 12. Got it. And and when you when you pick that 12 weight up and you feel how how heavy it is, first of all, don't be intimidated by how big that rod is, because saltwater rods today. Um, I've fished so many different brands in in my friends' boats, and and then I fish uh mostly Orvis, but they are like Ferrari sports cars. You don't have to do much. I mean, it you you just give it a little and it goes and works. Um, so don't be afraid of how big that yeah. Um the other thing I will recommend uh that you not worry about uh casting a ton of line or you know impressing anybody with a long cast. Work on being able to pick up and with one or maybe two back casts, firing a moderately long cast accurately. Accuracy. I mean, and quick. Like I said, I mean saltwater fishing, it really does parallel like grouse hunting. It's like you see it, make the cast. If it gets there, usually that you know, then you just gotta get right into form and start working that fly. You can't just like go, wow, I made the cast. And then the fish is like, why is that thing sinking weird? I'm out, like, you know, so you gotta you gotta you gotta get your game face on and kind of do it all, but it's gotta happen fast. And um the other day I was fishing with one of my buddies, and uh, I was fishing this tarpon. He was following my fly, and he kind of pulled off and he was too close to the boat. And I said, I'm going for the next one. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, go for the next one. So I pulled up and like put like two false casts and fired the entire fly line out, and it lands literally the fly lands on the forehead of like 150-pound tarpon. And I hear him laughing hysterically back there. And and uh I worked the fly, that fish. I don't know if I spooked him, I'm sure I did. Um, that didn't work out. He left, but he's like, dude, you had a fish at like 20 feet just to like off to the left. When I when you said you were gonna go to the next one, I thought you meant that, not not hail marry a cast all the way out to that fish out there. Well, I just hadn't I didn't see that other fish. And that happens so much. I mean, when when you get up on the casting platform and you uh, you know, you're communicating with your guide, um, you know, your guide A is out there all the time, he knows what to look for, knows he can see it faster than you most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. And you gotta just like look to him as you know, get in sync with him and figure out how to um, you know, usually they do like the 12 o'clock, one o'clock. I don't even know why, but my brain sometimes still can't even think of what hand on the clock a fish is at. I'm like, what is that? Like 7:15. It's not something that's natural to my brain. I don't know why, but um, once you learn to work with your friend or your guide, whatever, and uh figure out where that fish is at, a lot of times they're like one o'clock, and you look, look, look, look, scan the water, and you're like, oh, I see him. And you cast right over the back of the fish that your guide was trying to tell you to cast to, which you don't want to do because he's gonna spook and he's gonna set the alarm for the other ones. So you, you know, you gotta be you want to cast accurate. Yeah, you want to cast to the the one that's not gonna spook everybody.

Jason 54:42

And he's got a different vantage point too. So he's got the advantage of experience, most likely, or even if he doesn't have the experience, let's say you're just going out with friends and or whatever, you know, it's you're gonna see better up there. So yeah, I can see how that communication and that teamwork is could be kind of fun too.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Just yeah, just that little bit higher than what you are makes a big difference.

Jason 55:04

When you say you want to cast two, you don't want to you want to cast the one that's not gonna spook the others. So if there's a bunch of fish around, there's you wanna you don't want to cast overfish to get to the one fish because then you spook them. Is that what you're is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Exactly.

Jason 55:21

Yeah, okay. That makes sense. That works in in rivers too, right? You don't want to cast over fish and spook the ones.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

No, they they set an alarm, man. And you know, those big tarpon, they've been around, they've they've been to the keys before, they know we're fishing for them.

Jason 55:37

So how has your as you've grown as a fly fisherman? Can you draw any parallels to how your art has grown as well? We you seen differences or changes, or did you make jumps and because you said you you're always trying to grow and get better and do those things? Is that something that you've seen parallel with your artwork as well?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

You know, um I think I would I would say this. Uh the I'm I'm one of those weird guys that talks about angling goals, which is so nerdy, even but you're not going to uh change the way you fish unless you do that. Um but much more much more so with my art. I'm very, very calculated with trying to push myself and trying to uh grow and trying to be you know super authentic to what I'm going through right now. And um, you know, it's it's uh something that I hope other artists understand. Um you're in the you're in the game, you're uh you either feel good or bad about your current painting, whatever it is, you have a client that's on your ass. Um there's there's positives and negatives to the process, but you know, for all of us who are artists, it's a life dream, probably fulfilled that we're even doing it. And I think it's important every time you approach um making art that you realize this is it. Like this is this is, you know, if if a kid said he wanted to be in the NBA and he's checking into the game, this is that dream fulfilled. I just I'm doing what I dreamt about doing. And it's easy to forget that because there's so many details, and there are there are things that can kind of take the wind out of your sails, but I really do try and and more so as I get older to approach uh every day at the easel as hey, this is what I always wanted to do, and this is special, and um, you know, art is not about just the product that someone walks away with, it's about the process of making it and how it makes you feel. And um I think the you know, the process of making it and and uh really giving of yourself to that, I think people can feel that in the artwork. Um and they may feel something totally different, and that's good too. I I see that all the time, but uh you know, I think it it's important to really be engaged, and um and that's that's why I can completely you know become depressed by a painting. I can I I painting can make me feel my absolute worst, and it can make me feel my absolute best. It's got that key to that inner part of my soul, you know what I mean? Um other things don't other other things and situations don't have that.

Jason 58:57

Not like fishing, fishing's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

If I screw up at fishing, no biggie. But if I'm screwing up at you know, a painting, I'm extremely disappointed and hard on myself and want to figure out how to get back on track. And you know, for me personally, uh I don't follow like a photo necessarily. Uh there's like there's not an answer um that is given to me. I have to figure it out for myself. My designs um are much more from my head, and um so I uh sometimes I I do things totally wrong, but I can't tell why it's wrong. Um, because it, you know, there's it's things I've seen many times, and uh and I know what I'm trying to do and the look I'm trying to give it, but all of a sudden it's just not working. And uh I'm the first to tell you, I still run into that uh often. Sometimes the painting gods bless me, and and I run right through a painting, and it's almost like I'm a professional, right? But but I still like it, you know. Fact is, is I I do hard paintings, I don't let myself do many easy paintings. And if I was just gonna like kind of coast, I don't think I would have a struggle. But I'm you know, going, okay, let's do it, let's try this, and that's when I get into trouble. But then, you know, then I get past it, and then I feel really good.

Jason 1:00:32

How do you pass how do you get past it? What do you do in those those hard times when you're like uh this does not look the way I want it to look?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

Uh go fishing. No, well, you know, you can uh you can you can take a break, um, put it aside, move to another painting. Um, you know, just work like I I take a photo of the painting and walk away and and like go downstairs and then look at it like on the phone. Just it like it removes me from the environment of the painting, which almost is like a a bad vibe almost starts. And I'm like, okay, let's just get out of there. I'll go build a canvas or something, something that I can take my mind off this and then re- Also being productive, yeah. Yeah, and then re-look at it and go, okay, I you know, I'm trying to preserve this part of the painting because I think it's going in the right direction, but that is the very thing that's holding the rest of the painting down. I've got to just come back and wipe that out and start over. And that's sometimes hard to do. You become really protective over certain parts of a painting as it's going. I think you can understand that. Um, but I think that good painters um, you know, are willing to do that, they're willing to wipe out something that already took them uh half a day to develop because it doesn't matter. You know, hey, what am I gonna brag that I ran through a painting and it took me one day? If it's not a good painting, it's not a good painting.

Jason 1:02:05

Yeah, that makes sense. Before I ask my last question, Derek, how can people find out more about your paintings and uh see them, purchase them, and find out more about you and what you're doing, your fishing, your art, and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Well, um, down here in the keys, if you come down and you want to do some fishing in the lower keys, um, I show all the original work that I do at um my new joint uh above the square grouper. Um, I'm sure that sounds weird, but square grouper is a restaurant and one of the finest restaurants in the Keys. And then my new joint is um kind of a restaurant lounge um club above it, and uh that's where all my original work goes. And then they opened a new um square grouper up in Isla Morata, and so I've got my artwork up there as well. So that's really the places that um my original work down here goes, and then up north, um pretty much uh I have an art closet, it's very sophisticated. Uh I I feel terrible. I got I spend like two weeks working on a painting and then it I photograph it and put it in the art closet for nobody to enjoy. It's like, God, this sucks. But that's how it works. You just gotta go on my website. Really? Yeah. I mean, sometimes I'll put it up in my house, but yeah, that's how it is.

Jason 1:03:37

I mean, you have inspired me to put my art up in my house because I look at your like to me, your house is like an art museum. Like it looks like you got art everywhere. I'm like, this guy's house is awesome, I love it. But it's not a big house, and uh and you could do a lot of art, you make a lot of art.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Yeah, so I just have to, you know, um, I had a small gallery in uh in my studio back in Montana, and I did like that because you know I could hang it all and properly light it, but in the situation I'm in in Michigan, it that just doesn't work out as well. So um, but if you're looking for original artwork, um I have it all listed on my website, um, which is just my name, DerekDYoung.com. And then um, you know, where it's just my wife, Janelle, and I here, and you're totally welcome to call us and ask us about a painting. And and that's what most folks do is they say, we're we're looking for a piece of art. Uh, we saw this or that, we wanted to kind of talk to you about it. Or um I I do commission work as well. So um my commission work is uh in line with my creative kind of drive. I won't I don't do commissions of people's um you know catches or I don't like uh do scenes that they want me to do. It's gotta be like, hey, I like uh it's gotta be in your yeah, yeah, part of my series or genre. Um and then I will like, hey, would you do a striper in your cubist series? Like, you know, more than likely I will. Um, you know, um uh at this point I I post almost everything on my Facebook and Instagram pages too. So if you're you know wanting to keep an eye out for a painting that you might um connect with, you can usually see it there first anyway. So that's a good place to follow my uh my current work.

Jason 1:05:38

Okay, great. Last question, Derek. If you could go back uh to when you were first starting out in art and fly fishing, uh what what advice would you give yourself to help progress both both kind of tactically and philosophically? And it could be art or fly fishing or both or um I don't know if I would change anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Um I think uh if I think when you're young, you've got a hunger um that maybe as you get older you don't have as much, but that hunger drives you and maybe you do dumb things with that hunger, but you're you're you're inspired and you're working hard. And um, you know, maybe maybe uh I would have told myself to slow down a little bit and uh you know focus a little more instead of uh you know, I was kind of painting everything and and all over the place and wasn't wasn't as capable of kind of honing into what exactly I wanted to do, if that makes any sense. Um whereas these days, you know, I'm still a little bit all over the place. That's if I'm honest, but um, I'm a little bit better about it.

Jason 1:07:09

I think you're good about it. I think that's a good answer, man. I mean, you're you're all over the place. I think you're in two places. You're in the Keys and you're up in Michigan, right? But I know what you mean. That's a good answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Well, when when uh I bring friends out in my boat, I I kind of joke that I'm the schizophrenic captain because um I will fully mentally plan what we're gonna do for the day, and then I literally, as I'm going out the canal, will look at what the water is doing, and then I look out into the open water, and suddenly I'm totally rethinking my entire plan of attack. And then I was gonna go toward the backcountry and I turn and go towards the ocean, and they're like, What are we doing? I'm like, I don't know. I I could just as easily turn back around and go the other way, but you know, I also am kind of thinking that uh with the wind and this and that, the tide, I think we'd be better off going out front. So, you know, I can be that way about art too. You can't take the artist out of the artist, you know. The right brain will kick in and take over.

Jason 1:08:19

That makes sense. Derek, thank you for being on the podcast. I really appreciate uh all your answers and all the value you bring in uh to people listening. So thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

It was my pleasure, Jason. Good chatting with you, buddy.

Jason 1:08:37

Thanks for listening to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. You can learn more about some of the topics we discussed in today's episode show notes. For more fly fishing ideas, stories, and artwork, check out my blog and online gallery at WadeOutThere.com. If you want to make Wade Out There a part of your own fly fishing journey, please subscribe and share. Until next time, Wade Out There.