The Wadeoutthere Fly Fishing Podcast
The Wadeoutthere Fly Fishing Podcast
WOT 255: Streamer Tactics in Yellowstone National Park with Noah Dahlke
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode we WadeOutThere with Noah Dahlke, from Bozeman, Montana. Noah grew up in an Air Force family, with roots in Wisconsin. While his father was stationed everywhere from Minot, North Dakota to Oklahoma, to Great Falls, Noah always looked for chances to fish, and tie.
He also looked forward to the summers, when he could return to his home state and fly fish with his grandfathers. He often would send them flies he tied to test before his visits, and made the trips home even more special. One of those flies became the Legacy Leach, which was picked up by Umpqua Feather Merchants as one of their signature flies.
When his father retired, the family ended up in Bozeman, and Montana State became the obvious choice for a young man who wanted to attend school for engineering, and continue to hunt and fish.
Now, Noah has found a job, and a new life, in Helena, where his dream of working and fishing in Montana has come true.
We discuss streamer fishing in Yellowstone National Park, as well as Noah’s thoughts on the importance of fishing with the ones you love with the time you have.
LEARN MORE:
Noah's "Legacy Leech" at Umpqua Feather Merchants
Visit WadeOutThere.com/art for 10% off your first original painting or limited edition print from show host and artist Jason Shemchuk
Newsletter Sign-Up . Sign up for emails with new podcast episodes, blog articles, and updates on artwork from Jason.
In this episode, we wait out there with Noah Dalki from Bozeman, Montana. Noah grew up in an Air Force family with roots in Wisconsin. While his father was stationed everywhere from Minot, North Dakota, to Oklahoma, to Great Falls, Noah always looked for chances to fish and tie. He also looked forward to the summers, when he could return to his home state and fly fish with his grandfathers. He often would send them flies he tied to test before his visits, which made the trips home even more special. One of those flies became the Legacy Leech, which was picked up by Umqua feather merchants as one of their signature flies. When his father retired, the family ended up in Bozeman and Montana State became the obvious choice for a young man who wanted to attend school for engineering and continue to hunt and fish. Now Noah has graduated and found a job in a new life in Helena, where his dream of working and fishing in Montana has come true. We discuss streamer fishing and Yellowstone National Park, as well as Noah's thoughts on the importance of fishing with the ones you love with the time you have. Welcome to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Shemchuk. At Wade Out There, we believe fly fishing is special but not elite, and that anyone can become a great fly fisher if they are willing to go, learn, and teach. Join me as I talk with other fly fishermen and women about their unique journeys into fly fishing, the rivers they fish, and the tactics and philosophies they practice. For those who can never leave the river in their hearts, this podcast is dedicated to helping you make the memories that keep us all coming back to Wade Out There. Welcome, Noah. Thanks for being on the Wade Out There podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm excited. I'm excited too. We talked a little bit about this before the show, but I've spent some time in Bozeman, and it's always cool to talk to people that are kind of uh starting out. And man, I'm just excited for you. I see the mountains in the background, and you're finishing up school and you're moving a little further out west, but you're gonna get to stay in Montana and work and live and fish, and it's just a cool time in your life, man. So congratulations, dude. Congratulations on graduating. Hopefully, you passed your test this morning.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we'll see. It was a it was a tough one this morning, but you know, what was it? What was it? It was uh steel design.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's cool, man. That's a cool test to take. The design of steel. That's like a hardcore kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03I enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's difficult, but I get through it and I enjoy it. So yeah, no, it is definitely an exciting, exciting time. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, man. Graduating then.
SPEAKER_00So you're in Bozeman now. We're gonna talk a little bit about fishing in the park, is one of the places that you like to fish. And actually, streamers, which is one of the flies that you that's your sign, you one of your signature patterns, right? For Umcoa is the legend leech.
SPEAKER_03We're gonna talk Yeah, yeah, the legacy leech.
SPEAKER_00Legacy leech, I'm sorry, yeah, the legacy leech. And uh so we're gonna talk streamers in the park, we're gonna talk uh fishing with family, and I'm excited to get into it, man. Uh I want to start with your dad was in the Air Force. I was in the Air Force. I've said this a lot on the show, but I didn't take advantage of the opportunities I had traveling around. Can you talk a little bit about how you got started in fly fishing and fly tying and leverage that experience moving around when when others maybe don't?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, it was definitely uh definitely an interesting, interesting time growing up, you know, moving. That never is a lot of fun when you're in elementary school or middle school. And I'm sure it wasn't, I know it wasn't easy on my parents either, but kind of got into it. Um I guess I should start with both my parents are from Wisconsin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, same same small town, about an hour east of Minneapolis. And uh both my grandparents were grandpas were big uh big fly fishermen. And so really they're the ones that that introduced introduced me to it. We would always go back in the summers, you know, we'd be moving around, we'd always go back, visit them, spend like a month in Wisconsin. So I mean, I think honestly, probably one of the best places to learn to fly fish. It's you got a little bit of everything. It's a little, it's it's easy to get you know the the five-year-old out on the fly rod with you know on this little bluegill pond where you can you can catch a lot of fish and and keep them interested. And so that's kind of where it all started.
SPEAKER_00Okay, cool. I thought you were gonna say that it was a good place to learn because you're out there in the drift list fishing like super hard creeks and had to be accurate, and but no, you're talking about like the ponds and the bluegills and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03Ponds and the bluegills are a lot easier than some of those creeks.
SPEAKER_00That's good because I was gonna make you defend yourself. I was gonna say, dude, I that sounds like a terrible place to learn if you're a little kid.
SPEAKER_03It does, yeah. I mean, my grandpa's got a nice little stream running running through his property, and still to this day, it's going from the big water out here to go fish, and all this grass is hanging over the banks and the water is crystal clear. It it is tough.
SPEAKER_00So it's probably a good challenge. It's kind of like you can work your way up to it. You've got like all levels, the freshman, JV, and varsity level kind of fishery out there.
SPEAKER_03Exactly what it is. And uh so really, I mean, they're the ones that that got us, got me introduced into it, and my dad. Um, my dad's a big fly fisherman too.
SPEAKER_00And okay.
SPEAKER_03So it really started out there.
SPEAKER_00Why do you think your grandparents were the one your grandfathers like they kind of took the helm there? I mean, I'm not I'm sure your dad was involved, right? But they seemed like they're more influential, is kind of what I'm hearing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they were. They were for sure. Um, just kind of getting started. My dad would wouldn't always be able to come back. I mean, you kind of understand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So we'd go back with my mom for for the summers for you know a month or spend some time at my my grandpa's cabin and just fish bluegills with poppers, and there was nothing better. It was a good time.
SPEAKER_00That's cool. I need to do more of that with my daughter. She's four. And yeah, I think I do too much of the hard stuff too early on. But uh, cool. What'd your dad do in the Air Force?
SPEAKER_03Uh he was a missileer, so we we got all the fun places like Minot and Great Falls.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So yeah, out west, you know.
SPEAKER_03That's oh yeah. My my mom was not too happy about my not.
SPEAKER_00Uh I've never been there, dude. I never never took a jet into my knot. I've never been out there, but it's it's gotta be cold, man.
SPEAKER_03Very cold. Not a lot to do. There wasn't, and at that point either. I mean, I was probably third and fourth grade when we lived there, so there wasn't much, there was not a lot of fly fishing there. We I still would like in the summer when we would go back to Wisconsin, but yeah, at that time, like we would go out and we would we would jig for walleye and and northerns, which is fun.
SPEAKER_00But getting outside. I know that you tied early, so was that something that helped you in places like that where you're out in the you know, it's cold and you're kind of bundled up, but did you tie a lot out there? Is that where some of that kind of was born?
SPEAKER_03I think that's probably where I really started to tie. Um just because I spent a lot of time dreaming about our summers in Wisconsin. Yeah. And so I would kind of I would tie in the winter and and I would send those send some back to my to my grandpas and um and then just really getting ready to. I always love fishing in the in the summers. That was kind of what I look forward to. So I would tie up different, you know, hoppers.
SPEAKER_00What a special relationship, man, to be able to tie flies, send them to your grandfather, then come back and fish them, or or hear from him how he's how they're doing with them and stuff like that when you're a little kid. I mean, that's a cool story, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was it was definitely pretty, it was definitely great. I mean, that's definitely I mean kind of how I got into it, and it was nice because um they liked real simple patterns.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so the zebra midge was always easy.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad you said that. I wrote like I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back, but yeah, I wrote a blog post about how the zebra midge is just like such a great beginner pattern. It because it catches fish, it's easy to tie, but you learn a lot about tying, gotta put a bead on it, gotta wrap thread, and you know, I just I like the zebra midge. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03It is, it is like the one that I would recommend everyone to start with. Tie the zebra midge, and and you'll learn a lot. Like you'll learn the little things, you'll be able to, you know, and it's one too, like you can you can clean it up and it it can look nice and it's a good one to learn on.
SPEAKER_00Sure. And it also, I think I like it because it gives you some confidence that you can tie a small fly, you know. If you're fishing tailwaters and stuff, it's all these small flies that if you go to the fly shop, you know, they're gonna give you a size 20 or a size, not always, maybe they won't, but like a lot of tailwaters, you're gonna get small flies. The zebra midge was the first small fly that I tied there. I was like, okay, yeah, I guess I mean there's they're small, but there's not a lot to them. Like they're pretty simple stuff, so you know, yeah, there's not a lot of super complex zebra like midge patterns, you know.
SPEAKER_03I guess maybe and it's one that like people can catch fish on, and that's I think one thing too, like when you're kind of getting into the the tying, like it is it is pretty cool to catch, you know, your first fish or catch fish on the tie or the flies you tie, and I think that's uh that's a good one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Is that one of the things that got kept you into fly tying? Because I started I always tell people I I started fly tying twice. Like I got a fly tying kit and I started tying flies a little bit, and I was like, ah, this isn't for me. Like, I don't what am I doing here? And then I had an opportunity, I started tying, I don't know, just randomly started tying flies again, but this time I was more focused on fish like tying flies for the water I was gonna fish instead of like the the flies that were in the kit. And then yeah, when I caught a fly, uh caught a fish on one of my own flies, I was like, oh yeah, I get it. I understand this, but I don't need like any of this material in this flying kit, right? I don't need yeah, I don't need any of this stuff. I just need to tie a uh uh hairsear, you know. Uh if I could just learn how to tie a few hair's ears, I'll catch fish on them. And I don't know. That's my take on the fly tying kit. But some people have had good experiences with kits, probably, but it's not my experience.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would I would probably agree with you on that. I think there kind of was almost uh I guess kind of like how you explained it, like kind of had to start twice, and it was kind of similar to mine, I guess, because I would send those flies back, and it's a lot of like you know, the great pink squirrel. That was my grandpa's favorite.
SPEAKER_00I've heard of that.
SPEAKER_03So that's a good driftless fly, and so that was real easy, but it was a lot more difficult. Like when we moved to Great Falls, the fish are a lot different on the Missouri, and it's a pretty finicky, and those fish are still like when I go up there, it's it's tough. Yeah, that is.
SPEAKER_00And so is it still real big out that way? I mean, I always think about the Missouri. I just talked to a guy that's in Craig that fishes in Missouri like all the time. I don't know, out by Great Falls, is it what's the water like out there? Is it still a huge river or is it?
SPEAKER_03I mean, we fish below Craig. It's about 45 minutes away.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's only that it's not that oh, I didn't know that, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So we would we would fish that a lot.
SPEAKER_00Showing my geography ignorance once again on the show. I don't know if we'll edit this out or not. Probably leave this in because people are just gonna laugh at me and that's fine. But yeah, I didn't know it was that close. That's cool, man. That's super cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so that was the that was the first real Western experience we got. I got was when we moved to to Great Falls, and then after that, I think my second, like really learning the fly tie was when we moved to Oklahoma. My dad took a job as the he was in charge of the ROTC program at Oklahoma State. Okay, and so um there was not a lot of uh fly fishing opportunities quite like before, and so I think almost like mine, I really kind of spent a lot more time, especially in the winter, yeah, really, really getting into perfecting it and kind of having that idea.
SPEAKER_00When did you tie the legacy leech? When did that happen?
SPEAKER_03That came out of that was when we were living in in Oklahoma. So Okay.
SPEAKER_00So you've this is kind of the end, you're like, I've got more skills, and you're at the yeah, the the end of your kind of traveling around Air Force thing. Yes before you go to school in Bozeman.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so that was I was in probably I was probably in a freshman in high school when that fly got picked up by Umpqua.
SPEAKER_00How does that even happen, dude? Like, what do you do? Do you just like, hey, I tied this awesome fly? Do you guys want to have it?
SPEAKER_03Or I don't even I mean, it was it was so weird because I and I know there's kind of some behind the scenes stuff at Umqua that that had happened, and so like I signed the the contract or whatever when we lived in Oklahoma, but it wasn't in production until like maybe two years later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And at that time we had moved to to Bozeman, but I don't remember, I just remember there being like this big like pamphlet that somehow I found it online and I was like, oh, this would be cool. And so I just kind of started like you know, following the submission guidelines, and I would send it in. And I had a couple different patterns I sent in before before that one, but it was it was weird. I don't know how I how I figured it out.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it's cool. I think it's cool for someone like I also think it's cool to have the confidence to be like, this is a kick-ass fly. Like, I'm gonna send this in. Where did you like how did you gain that confidence? Or I guess talk me through the development of it. I didn't know we were gonna talk about the legacy leech this much, but I now I really want to know. I really want to hear about it. Like, how did you design it and figure like why did you design it? And then how did you kind of like say, yeah, this is this is good, good enough to like get out there and show to people?
SPEAKER_03I think it was um well, I I designed it in Oklahoma, um, really fishing for bass a lot. Okay, fish for a lot of bass, and just these real simple black or brown like leech patterns. I just had a ton of great luck on them. And so going back to Wisconsin in the summers, I would bring them back, and there was a few um streams we really liked um to streamer fish, real like you know, jump across, not not wide, but kind of deep streams. And we would streamer fish them for for brook trout, and I had great luck there, and then I would take them to my grandpa's cabin and you know sight fish for for bass that are kind of laying up in the shallows with them. And I was like, this fly works pretty good for me. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00No, I don't mean to put you on the spot, dude. I'm not trying to like make you defend it. I mean, I I just am curious, like, yeah, no, you answered the question. That's a good that's a good answer. That's where it started. Oh, that's cool. So you still fish it. Um, I mean, we're gonna talk about going in the park. You did you guys move to Bozeman or did you did your family go there, or did you just go there for school and the family's someplace else? Did you all kind of go?
SPEAKER_03Uh whole family moved, whole family moved in 2019 when my dad retired from the Air Force.
SPEAKER_00Oh, cool. So he he liked it out there too. He was like, Yeah, this is a good spot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that move to Great Falls. We knew it was either gonna be Missoula or Bozeman when when he retired, so that was just a matter of where he kind of found a job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's good.
SPEAKER_03But yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, and now you're almost done with school and you're fishing in the park quite a bit. Uh let's talk about uh let's talk about Yellowstone and maybe why that's a special fishery for you and why you enjoy fishing it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um, I guess one of the reasons it kind of started with family. Um my dad's my dad's side, they would always they did a lot of kind of fly fishing trips in their summer. Um, and one they would always do is big group trip out to the Yellowstone and the Madison growing up. And so um one of the one of the summers one of the first summers we were living here, um my grandpa came out, my uncle, some of my dad's cousins, and we had a we did a we did a nice big trip down to to the park and spent a couple days and camped and fished. And so that's kind of where it started, and it was just so much fun like fishing with those guys, and you fish all day, but just hang out on the bank a lot of the time and yeah, watch each other fish, and so that's where it started.
SPEAKER_00Slow moving, that's cool, taking it easy. All right, yeah. And then you went to school out in Bozeman. Was that a no-brainer for you because fishing in Montana, and I guess now your family's there, so this is where it's gonna be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, MSU's a good engineering school, and got to stay here and fish and hunt, and so it was a pretty pretty no-brainer to me. I I really enjoyed uh the time out here, so yeah. I mean, and being close to the park, like I I love fishing down there, and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was pretty close to going to Montana State when I was 18 years old, man. I was I was this close to being like, maybe I don't want to go to the Air Force, maybe I just want to go hunt and fish all day. But that's not what I did, but that's okay. But so we talked about this before the show. You like to streamer fish, you like to dry fly fish. I think we hear a lot about dry-fly fishing in the park, but not a ton about streamer fishing. Uh can you talk to me a little bit about like how you go about approaching a day in the park, streamer fishing? Do you like what do you think about as far as like conditions or planning your like the preparation for going out there? You know what I mean? Like how do you decide where you're gonna fish or how you're gonna fish it if you're going to do like if a streamer day?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I think it started like how everyone goes to the park for it was a dry fly trip, everyone had come out again, and I was I mean, pretty stoked to throw hoppers all day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And after one day of not a lot of action, I was a little fed up seeing all these big cutthroats, you know, swimming around. And and I really enjoy um, I really enjoyed a streamer fish. I I really do, and I like and I don't mind doing it on the sunny days, clear water. I like the flashy flies, then especially. And so that's kind of how it started. It was a was a bad, bad dry fly trip, honestly. Um but I think the biggest things to me were kind of find some of the areas that maybe aren't fished a lot. Okay. And so, like, even even on the even on the popular, you know, Slough Creek, um, everybody fishes the meadows.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and that's what you hear about. You can hike in the first meadows, you can hike in the second, you can hike in the third. But there's a lot of really interesting and and neat water kind of in between them in the canyon, in the canyon sections.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um I think the biggest thing to me is kind of fishing those uh water that doesn't see quite as much pressure. You can you can hide a little bit easier, you know, your profile. And when fish are chasing flies, they're not chasing them to you standing out, you know, out in the water, maybe, or kind of up tall on the bank. It's kind of it's a little bit more hidden. And I mean, the last few years too, it it kind of has to be a a morning, morning session.
SPEAKER_00You like the morning? Oh.
SPEAKER_03I do.
SPEAKER_00Why does it have to be the morning though?
SPEAKER_03It's just better fishing, or you just like it better, or the park's been with all like um, I guess the last few years, they've been putting a lot of hoot owl kind of restrictions on it. So after two, so I mean, later in the this is more later in the summer. I don't see August.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um can't fish the evenings, and the water's just nice and cool in the morning.
SPEAKER_00They're a little bit more likely to do you do a lot of hiking around to to get to the places, or you you know, I mean, is it a lot of it backpacking and because there's all kinds of stuff you can do in the park like that with backpacking, and is that something you enjoy doing too with your streamer setup?
SPEAKER_03I haven't really gotten the opportunity to. Just kind of been busy um with jobs and stuff in the summer, internships, yeah. And so I haven't really had the opportunity to go backpack, but it's close enough, it's kind of right on the edge of what I'm willing to drive in a day.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so it's just been long day trips for the most part, but um that's cool. Yeah, I mean trying to get off the main trail, find some find some unique um different water that maybe everybody doesn't fish, walk a little bit more off the trail.
SPEAKER_00If you were only gonna fish in the park with streamers two days of the year, which two days of the year would you fish and how would you fish them? Ooh.
SPEAKER_03Only got two.
SPEAKER_00You don't have to tell me where. Don't you know no secret spots or anything, but I'm just like, which days are you gonna go out there?
SPEAKER_03People would probably tell me I'm wrong for not picking, you know, mid-November on the on the Madison. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um I just it's it's not, it's you, it's what you think, Noah. It's whatever you like. The show's about you.
SPEAKER_03I would say if I had the opportunity to fish it in the fall, I would say it would have to be sometime in October. Okay. But on I I love Slough Creek. Yeah, it's just the clear water and seeing those fish.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03But really, the main times that I fished it have been in in August. Okay. And getting getting up early, get out there, kind of hike in with your bear spray nice and early.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm scared of bears, dude. I've I've been at Slough Creek before several times, and yeah, it's great. I mean, I understand what you're talking about. It's a beautiful place.
SPEAKER_03I I I do like in August. Like, it's just uh I mean, I haven't I haven't got the chance to fish it, you know. And and around Bozeman, I love to streamer fish the spring, and that's just not something you get um the chance to do in the park, you know, opening on Memorial Day weekend. And so it's a little bit yeah, you kind of miss that that nice spring window.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's a lot a lot of water around you. It doesn't have to be the park, right? I mean, and you get to streamer fish all over. I mean, there's tons of waters around Bozeman.
SPEAKER_03Around Bozeman, ooh, early April. I love like early April is probably my favorite time to streamer fish. I mean, anywhere around here. I like the gallatin, the Yellowstone. It's it's kind of that time right before water's warming up real nice, right before the big spring runoff, those fish are starting to move around and they're starting to get real hungry. And I like early April. That is by far my favorite time.
SPEAKER_00What's a tell me a story, no? Tell me a memorable fish or one that got away, streamer fishing. Could be in the park, it doesn't have to be, but just something that stands out in your brain. Doesn't have to be the biggest fish you ever caught, but um, like I said, it could be the one that got away or just something that's the one okay.
SPEAKER_03It's the one that got away. It always is. Yeah, it's gonna haunt me forever. No, it was on a it was on a small spring creek around Bozeman, and I mean this fish came out from probably 15 feet away, an undercut bank in early April. I was just fishing, and this is something I've really gotten into, is a lot of guys love to throw those huge flies for big fish, and I just love a real small, you know, two inch long, nothing crazy, bright and flashy fly. I just I don't know what it is, and I move it as fast as I can, whether that's fishing in the park, fishing Spring Creek, fishing anywhere. I that is by far my favorite. Okay, and I was just pulling it right across, kind of end of the run, and this fish came out right right out to my feet and grabbed this fly. I mean, no fly line left out of the rod. Like it was right at the end of my, I was going to cast again. And I I mean, I just real clear water, probably. I don't know, he was over 20 inches. And but just being there super shallow and just watching him come out and then just not eating it, just came out and came and didn't eat it. Uh wiped at it and ducked back under the bank.
SPEAKER_00And we probably saw you if it was right at your feet. He was like, uh, I don't know if this is a good idea.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I just wasn't ready for it. I was like, it's early April, these fish, you know, I'd been I had I was waiting in the the kind of the shallow water below this run, fishing my way up into the deep water, and I just was not expecting him there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess it's not, I mean, right at your feet is it's I've I've caught fish where I'm not expecting, and I hate I hate when I lose a fish because I'm just like not prepared or not ready.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was safe to say, I mean, I fished every single inch of water the rest of that day. I was not gonna let that happen again.
SPEAKER_00Lesson learned. Okay. Lesson learned. But I mean, it doesn't mean you would have caught him, you know, if you I mean, it's still that's tough. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, and plus he it's not like I don't know what you could have done different.
SPEAKER_03I mean, no, and it wasn't I wasn't I wasn't too mad about it, but it was it was a pretty cool experience just to see him come flying out from this undercut bank right at my feet, and I was like, oh man, that's a big fish right there.
SPEAKER_00Uh we talked about streamers and the kinds that you like to fly uh tie. I'm kind of a slightly below average fly tire. Are there a couple of streamers that I could tie that you think are simple materials, not too complicated, that if I came out to fish with you, you'd be like, Yeah, we could fish this, Jason.
SPEAKER_03Like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um it's like a basic streamer that it's not too hard for me to get my hands wrapped around.
SPEAKER_03The Sparkle Minnow is probably one of my favorite streamers, um, and that one's real easy. Uh, I am not gonna sit here and act like I am a great fly tire in the streamer world. I know I have one with Umqua, but I can't I can't do deer hair. Okay. I'll admit it right now. It's okay. I don't do deer hair either, yeah. I cannot do the deer hair heads of some of these big streamers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think one way that I really like to tie those style of flies, maybe those big articulated sculpins that you see with the deer hair a lot, is use wool. Because you can use it in pretty much the same way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it turns out pretty nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And real nice looking. And so that's kind of been my way to get around the deer hair, is use wool. But I mean, the sparkle minnow by far, I mean, you can tie it in all sorts of color, you can tie it in black, you can tie it in gold, olive, you can tie it in white. And I think just having for me, anyways, is just having a couple of those in each color in my box and knowing if I go streamer fish right now, it's gonna be one of these. I'm just gonna switch colors until I kind of find find what I'm looking for, or just you know, depending on the the water clarity, too.
SPEAKER_00Do you do okay with the moving around a lot? And um, is that something that you like about streamer fishing? I when I'm streamer fishing, I'm trying to move a lot and just have a lot of opportunities. It's just something I hear a lot is you know, you're either gonna move that fish or you're not, and if you're not, then you might as well move on, kind of thing. Is that something that you believe in too?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, and I think especially for streamers, I fish really fast. Um, and I just kind of keep walking, and which is what haunted me about that fish. I knew right then, like I was just kind of walking fast and and not really fishing all the water that maybe I should have. I know my grandpa's a big proponent on and he takes his time. He fishes all the water. If it's even if it's the dead of winter and we're fishing nymphs, he wants to fish the riffle and make sure he fishes it. And I just it doesn't matter. I when whenever I fish, I do I do fish pretty fast, unless it's like I'm fishing dry flies too, like a like a potterizing fish, but I I do I do know I move really fast because when I fish with other people, I'm often the one that is bouncing around quite a bit. And they'll I know my dad too. He'll fish like a couple of runs and he'll way out fish me every single time, and he's very good at each spot, and and he's a dry fly guy only. Dry or die, dry or die. Can it doesn't matter?
SPEAKER_00It's so what does he think about your streamer? Uh that that you're you're he's okay with it?
SPEAKER_03You guys are still friends into it a little bit. Yeah, I'm not gonna say he's all the way there. He'll fish a streamer well before he ever fishes a nymph.
SPEAKER_00But um so the theme is note is not is just not nymphing. We talked about this. Like you you fish dry flies too, uh, but you'd prefer not to fish nymphs, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Prefer not to fish nymphs. If it's gonna go a lot of times if if I think I'll catch some fish or see some fish um rising, I'll I'll fish it dry, but then it is immediately to the streamer if nothing is nothing is working on top.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, you're in a good spot for streamer fishing, that's for sure. Um any other things about fishing in the park with streamers that you've noticed or like kind of lessons learned or takeaways that weren't obvious to you before you started going in the park with streamers?
SPEAKER_03Um, I think kind of the biggest thing is is you kind of gotta be willing to put the the fishing report to the side a little bit. All right. Um you fish, I mean, I'll fish, you know, the meadows is Slough Creek, I'll fish below, you know, um the Yellowstone, below the below the lake, um in all the same spots that that people love to go and dry fly fish, and it's never gonna show up on the reports. And I think that's one thing about streamer fishing is you can have some great days with it in July, in August. Um, it might not be what's number one on the report ever from you know, or if you go into a fly shop. Um, but I think the biggest thing is really experimenting with it. Like that's kind of been my thing. And especially like when I went to Slough Creek, and all of a sudden you can see in the clear water all these fish are chasing. It kind of kind of flip my perspective a little bit because you would never see that on a report from Slough Creek. It's always you need this size 20 or 22, little nymph or little tiny dry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and I was out there and I was like, this is awesome. Like I it's clear water and fish are chasing. I'll take that any day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. All right. Experimenting. That's cool. I'm gonna ask you, I want to ask you some tactics questions. They don't have to be super long answers. Um, they could be short. There's no rules, you can answer however you like, but uh don't need super long answers, I guess is what I'm saying. But they can be long if you want them to be. But um I want to ask them in the context of streamer fishing in the park, but it doesn't have to be. If that doesn't make sense for the question, or in your brain, like just be whatever comes to mind. But um what do you change first when you're not catching fish? So like you're in the park, you got a streamer on, not catching fish. What's the first thing that you're gonna change?
SPEAKER_03Color. It's always gonna be color, I feel like. Um to me, that's kind of the one that changes the most. Um well, I guess I'll back up. That's okay. It tells you there are no rules, so we can go. Probably the retrieve. I'm gonna change the retrieve first. I'm gonna if I'm ripping them fast, I'm gonna slow it down, slow it down. Okay. Um, strip, strip pause, and then I'll change the color.
SPEAKER_00That would probably be retrieve, then color. Okay. Yeah. What do you think is underappreciated in fly selection? What's something that you think that doesn't get enough love when people are talking about which flies they're picking out?
SPEAKER_03Probably probably the movement in the water. I really like not super heavy flies. I like to use a a weighted fly line so that those flies kind of move a little bit more natural and less like a jig where you're stripping those big heavy ones with the heavy eyes or cone head, and then they're gonna drop, and then when you strip them, they kind of just pick back up. So I think fly movement and lighter flies with a with a sinking line is kind of my favorite.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's cool. So what what kind of this is a side question, but what what kind of rig do you like to have going in there? Like what size rod and reel and weight line and it sounds like sinking line if you're going in doing this?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so like an intermediate sinking line, um, not super heavy. I like I don't want a full sinking line, you know, even like a 10-foot sink tip is is perfectly fine. Um I'm not like super, super picky with it, and then I like uh a six-weight rod, a nine foot six weight, that's kind of my my preference. Um for for pretty much all my streamer, and then I'll just leave that set up and okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Cool. Um what are some things uh techniques or tips or things that you've picked up with reading water? So you're fishing in the park or you're streamer fishing. Could be in the park, doesn't have to be, but uh you know, things that you've learned for about reading water when you're streamer fishing.
SPEAKER_03Fish all the I mean it's it's a lot like um pretty much everything else, and just reading the changes, right? The the changes in depth, changes in um water speed. Um those are kind of the two biggest ones I look for. And then where are the shadows? Like where can this fish hide up against a bank, um under you know, shadows of the tr of a overhanging tree, something like that, or even um and one that I think is pretty underappreciated, especially on like water like that, where if you're fishing in um some of these, like out in the middle of the Yellowstone below the lake, and you're fishing a riffle, there there's no there's no shade, but somewhere where that water is is not super flat, right? Where they can hide, and you would never in a million years see them if you were an eagle up in the up in the sky, just because they're hidden by that that that ripple of the water. And um so I think I really enjoy fishing the quick riffles, especially later in the year where those fish are sitting um a little bit shallower, and you you can't really see where exactly they're at. Um so fishing, fishing the changes, and that's kind of my biggest thing.
SPEAKER_00Okay, paying attention to changes in yeah, there's all kinds of different uh things that change in the water, and that makes a lot of sense. What's what do you think is one of your more underappreciated pieces of gear? Like what's something that you really rely on that you like that maybe doesn't get you know is more underappreciated.
SPEAKER_03That's a good question. Underappreciated put me on the spot here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. Yeah, you don't have to like for me, I don't know, like um split shot, I think is underappreciated. Like I I don't have a problem nymphing. I nymph quite a bit, and I think a lot of people are anti-split shot or they don't prefer not to have they like weighted flies and not split shot, but I think it's underrated because I like my fly to kind of move around a little more in the in the water. Like I want a natural drift, but I want a free-floating fly. And I think if you weight a fly down too much, now you lose some of that a little bit. In my opinion, I don't know. I think split shot solves that. If I have a fly that's just not weighted, I still think it fish is good. I like I think split shot is one of my underrated things. So that would be an example. That's a good one. That would be an example.
SPEAKER_03I really and I like your reason for it too, because I mean that is spot on. I had never even thought about like a lot of those heavy flies these days, like that is not gonna move very much in the water, yeah, especially. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is huge.
SPEAKER_00So or yeah, maybe I'll throw a weighted fly, but um another fly above it on a tag, but look, maybe I have two flies that aren't weighted that I want to fish, right? So split shot helps me with that, whether it's a drop shot or just split shot in between two flies. Is there anything that you have when you're streamer fishing that you you rely on or you think is underrated? Kit-wise, could be your rod or real.
SPEAKER_03I think the the weighted line, the sinking, sinking line. That's a good one that's a big one for me. Because, like I kind of said earlier, I really, really, really like like you're talking with the the nymphs. You like an unweighted, you know. Maybe I really want a nice, just a basic pheasant tail with I d that fly is not gonna get down five feet if I'm yeah, it's not getting down fast for sure.
SPEAKER_00Right? So I need something.
SPEAKER_03And so for me, that's kind of the the weighted line in a a short leader. I'm not going over five feet most of the time. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And that allows you to fish flies that you like without worrying about are they getting down? And I think that's a really good one, dude, because a lot of folks, I don't know. It's just that moving over to that weighted, you know, sinking line or tip it, or or not tip it, sinking leader, you know, is kind of not in everyone's cross-check. You know, it's it's easier to just fish your dry fly line with your normal leader and put a heavy fly on there. But if now you're kind of limiting yourself to what flies you can fish.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I don't want to make it like, and that's the other thing with streamers too, like a lot of people aren't fishing them um a lot, or maybe you just you don't want to invest in a in a sinking line, and I think that's completely a a great, you know, reason. Nothing wrong with that, yeah. No, no, not at all. I mean, that's what I did for for a long time. Um, and I think then, like a heavier fly, there's nothing wrong with it. You can still rip them real fast, which which I I do like. I think the one thing I would recommend against would be split shot streamer fishing. Okay, go on, keep going, keep going. It drives me up a wall. Alright, I love this. Go on. And it's only one per there's one person I know that does it, and it's my grandpa. And every time he does it, it drives me crazy. Just please don't do this because it just it really eliminates the movement of the fly. And I think that is the biggest thing streamer fishing is if you got a fly with a bunch of marabou on it, you really want that to move and and act like a fly.
SPEAKER_00And I guess the split shot doesn't, it just kind of takes that out of it, I guess.
SPEAKER_03It takes it out, and you get a lot more of that that jigging action, right? Where the fly is gonna follow the split shot down, you strip it, it's gonna kind of follow it back up. And I like to keep my flies normally at a at a pretty constant level um throughout throughout the water column, wherever if I'm fishing up at the top or fishing, fishing down low, which is nice about that that weighted line is it it just keeps that fly um at a at a constant level. Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Can you talk more about the water column and how you decide maybe how you're gonna target different parts of the water column and and why you're gonna do that, and then how you're gonna do that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think and the targeting um um the water columns, like you kind of got to look at it by season. So in the winter, hardly ever are those fish gonna be up high in a water column, looking for dry flock, looking for stuff coming off the water, um, especially because the water up there is a little bit faster than down low. Um so it kind of comes down to seasons a little bit and how active the fish are. But early morning, I like to start. I think all of my casts, every time, the first time I fish a pool, I always cast one up and I start ripping it right back, bring it right across the water column. And and any fish that's real active in that pool, if it were interested, it would come up right away and and hit that fly on the first cast. And so that's kind of how I do it as I start high, and then maybe next time I let that sinking line sink for two seconds before I start stripping and then. A little bit farther until I'm fishing, fishing slower, right? My retrieve is slower when I'm fishing deep for the fish that are moving a little bit slower than the fish that are sitting up high. That I'm I'm ripping it fast. And so I think as you go down the water column, you just kind of want to slow your retrieve, let it sink down there because the fish are a little uh little slower, a little less active.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Is there any other presentation techniques that you rely on or that you think are important when you're fishing these streamers? And these are like you said, they're not these monster streamers. You're up in the park or you're around there, and um that's I I you know a lot of people are fishing bigger streamers, I guess. So is there any kind of presentation things that you think about besides that?
SPEAKER_03Always, always, always use a loop knot. It is it is the greatest from when I have switched, um, you know, from just tying straight up against you know the flies in the typical manner, the using the loop knot, I mean it makes you can tell a difference when you're when you're just strip a fly right across across the water, you can watch it, and it makes the world of a difference. Just swims better, kind of just swims way better, especially and the one the one thing I would say is you need a little bit heavier of a of a leader of a tippet at that fly, just so it it makes that that loop stays stays tight, you know, it keeps the loop, and that fly can swivel around on the leader. Because if you got too light of a tippet, let's say you use 5x for some reason, that that loop is just gonna be pulled tight the whole time. Um and it won't swivel around.
SPEAKER_00You need it to be strong and thick enough to maintain its kind of loop loopness.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's exactly what I've been trying. Yeah, I couldn't figure out the words.
SPEAKER_00I know what you're saying. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So what size tippet do you run down to? It's not 5x and what?
SPEAKER_03I the way I do it a lot of times is I'll take my old dry fly leader that's started out nine feet or ten feet. Yeah, I know six, and that's I'll just use that.
SPEAKER_00It's either going in the garbage or is it you're using it for streamer fishing?
SPEAKER_03Pretty much to save them all to use for streamer fishing. And um so I mean they're pretty heavy, or I'll use just straight like um 15 pound test.
SPEAKER_00Just from the line? From the fly line? Yeah, just from the line. Okay. With a loop knot at the end. Okay. That's cool. Um what are a couple this is what are a couple habits you've developed that you think are helpful in fighting and landing fish?
SPEAKER_03Ooh, that's a good question. Um some habits. I really um I move downstream a lot with fish. That's a good one, man. Yeah. I I really struggle. And even streamer fishing, when I got a heavy leader on, I just don't like to be upstream of fish when I'm fighting them. Me too. Unless it's slow water, you know, slow water. But I I'm almost a nervous wreck sometimes when I'll hook a fish on like 5x and it's like I cannot let this fish get down. And maybe it's to a point that might be a little too extreme, but I do I do feel like I just have to move to get downstream a fish and try to keep them. Try to keep them. Like once I hook them, I really do try to move them from faster water to the slower water ahead of me if I can, because otherwise I know I chase fish a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do too. Because I'm I'm very similar. Like, I just don't want that to be the reason that I don't catch a nice fish, is that I just didn't put the effort in to kind of move downstream. Now I'm starting to be do things I that I think are maybe like I'm trying to set myself up where they don't go downstream. I mean, the fish has a vote, and if that's what they're gonna do, that's what they're gonna do. But I think sometimes I work a fish too hard, and that they if I just let the fish go a little bit, you know, like not freak it out, it might not run downstream, it might, it might go upstream. But if it's if you put the screws to it early, like it's like, well, this is the easiest place for me to go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That's a good point. I didn't I hadn't thought about that either. So do you just kind of I mean I've noticed that more if I get a fish high in the water column, yeah, it'll kind of let that current, you know, if it's facing sideways, it'll just almost blow it downstream. Do you find that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I've tried to keep it down lower, right? I try and like keep the the rod tip down more. That that took me a long time to figure out, right? Instead of keeping my rod high, because I want it down, like you said, I don't want it at the top. Because I agree. I think that if they're up at the top, they're gonna splash around or they're gonna run because they don't like it. Um but I think I don't know. I this is just in the last six to nine months, and I've I've read or heard something that Kelly Gallup was talking about with reels and drags, you know, like real tight drags or real heavy drags. That if you do that, now you're the fish is more likely to run downstream because he's you know, if that's the easy move for him. Whereas if you have like less drag or you're less put less pressure, and uh yeah, dude. I don't, I mean I don't want to put words in the dude's mouth. Like maybe that's not what he's saying. I might be misunderstanding, but I think that there's something to it where like if you if you pressure a fish too hard too early, maybe you put you get yourself in a bad spot. I don't know. But I do end up running downstream a lot, I know that because I can't I haven't done this long enough to be like, yes, I have learned this lesson, and now I don't do it as often, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. No, that's a I've kind of heard similar things about the reel and the drag, and I think it was from it might have been from someone fishing salt water and just having a loose enough drag so that you know you pull it, it's not gonna go crazy when you but you can use your hand almost, your palm up against the reel to kind of change the drag a little bit. And I've I've kind of started to do that. I I just don't like a tight drag because I again like I don't want it to be the reason the fly pops out or break a tippet, you know.
SPEAKER_00But at the same time, it it depends, right? It depends on the water you're fishing. If there's a ton of structure, like if I'm if I'm fishing around on my home stream, the the Weaver River, there's just like all this structure and all this like grass and all this crap, and these fish, they just go right for it. They it's immediate, like this is the thing that I do when you catch me. Good luck, you know? And so I I fish heavier tippet and heavier rigs now because I want to move his head when when he does that. I don't wanna I want to have more control or at least feel like I have more control. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I mean you could always I think that's true. It does depend, I think, a lot on the on the water you're fishing. Because if you're gonna fish like a I mean, any of the still water stuff, if you're not around weeds, you can I mean that fish can run a little bit, but yeah, if you were to have a fish run out of weed bed, I would want to be able to tighten that down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, don't go over there, dude. And I mean, I guess if I could I used to fish a click and paw for a long time, so I guess if you have a click and paw, you could kind of like hold it and you you can you could do that if you want to still, but yeah, I guess that's why it's hard to catch fish when they're doing that. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I don't have the answers, but I do find that I like to move around too, and not always downstream, like I'll move out to get around boulders or whatever. I I'm much more mobile fish fighter than I was before. Um and it's kind of fun for me, and I seem to land more fish than just staying in one spot. I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think I I'd like to I think that's one thing I'd like to work on a little bit is just being a little bit more aware of of how I'm fighting the fish, just depending on the situation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The hard thing about learning how to fight fish is you gotta catch fish to learn. I mean, there's no easy way. You and if you want to learn how to land big fish, you gotta catch big fish and like you learn your lessons. Yeah, so you yeah. All right. Is there anything like is there a tactic or a technique that you changed your mind on with streamer fishing that you used to think one way about, but now you think a different way?
SPEAKER_03I used to think that I always needed a real heavy fly. I think that was and now kind of fishing with the sinking line, it's like, oh, I don't mind throwing one on with a it'll have a bead head on it, but it's not gonna to to you know really drop that fly very, very far. Um, I think that's the one thing for me is I used to think like I needed to have a heavy, heavy fly to get to get down. And it kind of depends, uh, I guess a little bit on the water you're fishing, but I'm I'm perfectly fine fishing unweighted flies as long as I have like a sinking line or something.
SPEAKER_00Okay. All right, anything else? We're gonna move on, and I've got an art question for you. I wasn't gonna ask you this because, but then I'm like, he's an engineer. This would be interesting. Uh, but and then I want to talk a little bit about family, but is there anything else, tactics or technique-wise, with fishing or fishing in the park that uh you know we haven't covered that you think you've got to put out there that is something that's important?
SPEAKER_03Not not not a lot. Um don't get stuck on the on the big water, don't get stuck on Slough Creek and the Yellowstone. Take your four-weight or your three-weight if you have one and go fish some dries and catch some fish because it can be that's the one thing I think about the park. Like it is a very difficult fishery. There's a lot of people that fish it, and I think one of the more fun days I've ever had is just throwing a size 16 caddis on a little small stream with a three-weight with one of my dad's cousins, and we were just having the time of our lives catching eight-inch fish and for an hour. Like don't forget that, don't forget it's a lot of fun. And you're in one of the most beautiful places on planet earth, and I think that's kind of the one thing for me. Like, it's okay, it can be difficult, and streamer fishing is I mean, it's a workout sometimes, but sometimes it's okay to put it down and catch a few little fish and just enjoy the moment.
SPEAKER_00All right. Art question. I'm an artist, and I've started asking this question, but there's a lot of people say that you know they're artistic or fly fishing is an art. I wonder, do you see art in fly fishing, or how do you how do you find art or what is artistic about fly fishing for you?
SPEAKER_03I mean, I think the cast is if you can have a real nice, and now this is not a streamer fishing thing, because I have probably the worst cast. I mean, I'm just slapping the water.
SPEAKER_00It's not artistic, okay.
SPEAKER_03No, it is not. It's a heavy line, it's a heavy fly, it doesn't look pretty at all. But I think the cast, like if you're fishing, you know, dry flies and stuff, and and I find a lot of times if I'm not maybe not catching fish, that just kind of focusing on the on the cast of it is a lot of fun. Like I think there's a lot that goes into it, and I think I mean people cast so many different ways, you know. Maybe you want your your thumb pointed up on the rod, or some people like their their index finger, pointer finger, and and I think there is a lot to that. I mean, and and the bugs too, like for me as a as someone that fly uh ties flies, like that is trying to match a a living a living bug with with you know natural and and some artificial materials. It's there's a lot, I think, of of art to that.
SPEAKER_00I would agree. That's a good answer. Um I think that you brought up something that's really cool. And I think I I've done this sometimes, but I think it's worth putting a pin in and mentioning is casting like when you're not catching fish out there, sometimes it's like it's those are good times to try new things. It's and that's a good time to just work on your cast, you know. And um I that can be fun. It could be fun to just cast or just practice different types of casting, or what let me work on my reach cast, or let me work on these different types of casting. You can still be fishing, but it the emphasis kind of changes, and I think that could be fun. Or like maybe you don't streamer fish that much and like not catching fish, might might as well try strike streamer fishing, you know. I'm gonna do that today. But there's opportunities out there to do stuff like that that if you open your mind to something other than must catch a fish on this cast, that there's lots of cool fun stuff you can be doing that is not catching fish.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I mean I really enjoy kind of sometimes like if it's just you know, and that's kind of one of those things too, like if it's if it's just me fishing too, like not catching any fish, like just kind of get lost in the where you're at and kind of look around and just practice cast a little bit, kind of just get lost in the motion.
SPEAKER_00We've talked about this a little bit in the beginning and know that family is important with you. Can you talk a little bit about uh what it's like for you now fishing, you know, are you fishing less with your family? And how do you how do you see the importance of that moving forward? Is it I mean to maintain kind of those relationships and the time that you have, you know, people are getting older, now you're moving away, got a job, everybody's further. Is there is that something you think about is keeping that going?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, definitely. I think I mean learning, learning was like with my with with both my grand grandpas and my dad, like that was always that was always a lot of fun. Um and I think one of my grandpas passed away, which is what the the fly the the legacy leech kinda was about, and um he passed away five years ago, and I think right after that, like it was pretty hard for me to maybe fish in some of these places I used to with him, and um and so it was it was definitely definitely opened my eyes a little bit more to enjoying enjoying the moments with you know my dad and and my other grandpa and and spending some time like making time to to fish with other people because I think a lot like I do really like to go out and maybe drive two hours away to go fish the beaver head one day and try to catch some big fish, but I think just being able to drive 45 minutes and we we're not gonna catch anything over 18 inches. We might catch a few fish between us, but just kind of spend some time and um you know and enjoy not just the fishing, enjoy the drive out there, enjoy, you know, maybe I'm you know, we leapfrog each other, and maybe I'll just sit there and and watch him fish for a little bit, and and so that's kind of been one of the things for me is I love to fish, but I also love just to to spend time with the the people that you know mean a lot to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you gotta put it on the calendar, man. You gotta figure out the times and the days and when you're gonna do it. It's my thought, I think. Gotta it's it's I mean it's hard to make happen sometimes, but it's worth it. And but you bring up a good point too. I think you build this thing up in your brain where it's like, well, we've got to do this huge big thing, but maybe it doesn't have to be that. Maybe it can be just like let's go to the pond or let's just go for a drive out to the highlight or just do something chill, and that could be enough, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, we took a trip, um, another trip last summer to the St. Joel River in Idaho, and uh we stayed in an old Forest Service cabin, and um it was just I think I think a lot of fun. I mean, none of those fish, I don't think anybody caught a fish over 18 inches. Like there's just not a lot of big fish, but to go out there with those guys and and kind of share a little bit too of from of you know the west to some people from Wisconsin was you know, it's a lot of fun to kind of and talk about different ways to fish because they fish all the real technical water out there, and we fish, you know, for bigger fish out here and a little less technical casting wise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I mean, just to be able to you're fishing all day, but you're not fishing the whole time. It's it's a lot of just sitting down on the bank and oh, what are you know, what are you how are you having luck on this and watching someone else fish and picking up on how they cast or and yeah, and then going back to the cabin and building the campfire and sitting around and I I all I enjoy that just as much as I enjoy the the fishing of it.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to put you on the spot here, Noah. You mentioned the legacy leech and your grandpa, and I'm not yeah, is that something that is that like where the name came from or the legacy leech, or is that I just I didn't quite get that exact connection. And if you don't want to talk about it, that's cool too.
SPEAKER_03No, I just I just kind of wanted to uh it was really Al's legacy leech, is kind of what I call it here, and and uh and kind of what I had it named. Um and then Uncle is just using the the legacy leech, and and I think Yeah, it was it was definitely definitely not easy.
SPEAKER_00Um Al's Legacy Leech, that's your grandpa.
SPEAKER_03Al Mole. He was and I think that was something that like it was it was kind of a blessing growing up with two grandpas that got along so well, and they would go out, and they were good buddies, and they would go to the drift list, and I mean just a few weeks ago for my uh my brother, my younger brother place here at in in high school here, and my grandma rode out with both my grandparents, and yeah, and to have that growing up where I got to fish with both of them all the time. We went up to the the North Fork and we had a group of nine of us um up by glacier and just fishing can't.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it was yeah, you can't you can't that's cool, man. That's really, really lucky that you had that experience, man. So that's great. All right, man. I'm gonna start wrapping it up. But before I ask you my last question, um I guess if you can how can people find out about you, or maybe like follow along your fly fishing journey, or if you want people to follow along, or is there anything that you want to put out there for people to to to learn about you? Or I mean I guess we'll we can put the link to the the fly in there.
SPEAKER_03We should show people that would that would be great. Um I don't I don't really have a lot. I'm really bad at posting on Instagram. Yeah, no. I don't really think I haven't fished in in a little bit, and yeah, I'm just I'm hoping now that uh school is done the craziness of this, yeah, definitely start fishing a lot more and and probably post on my Instagram.
SPEAKER_00It's anything you're ex uh don't worry about that. I think you're doing it the right way by not doing that. I just want to give you the opportunity. If there's something that you want to put out there that you want people to see, we can do that. Is there anything you're excited about fishing? I guess being done with school and getting out to new fishing waters, probably.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, super excited to be out close to the Missouri. It's probably my favorite place to fish.
SPEAKER_00So awesome, man. All right. Last question. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00If you could go back to when you first started fly fishing and give yourself two pieces of advice, one more tactical, one more philosophical. What would you tell yourself to help you progress as a fly fisher?
SPEAKER_03Ooh, that is a good question. Um, I think the biggest thing for I mean, tactical, tactical-wise, is um really learn where the the fish are. Um I think that like when I help people kind of get into it, I think it is probably one of the most difficult things to understand is the I think the two things are what flies should I use, and two would be where do I fish? Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes down to I mean, research is always good. I think there's so many tools online, yeah, just from fly shops and um just articles written. Um, I think that would be the biggest thing because I think it really is difficult for someone to come into. You don't know what a sow bug is, you don't know what a blue-winged olive is, you don't know what the nymph looks like. Um, so I think is spend a little bit of time just trying to learn some of that, um, and kind of learn where the fish are. I think it would be tactical, philosophical. Not I was not a very patient child at all, and I'm still not very good at it. Um but not take it seriously. I think that's the biggest thing. Like it's it's a lot of fun to chase big fish, it's a lot of fun to go out and catch as many fish as you can, but at the end of the day, you're outside and and it's nice just to look around and you know, it takes us to some beautiful places, um and and appreciate that that beauty and just the peacefulness of of being out there and enjoy it with enjoy every second. I think that's the biggest thing. Like enjoy every second with the people that you're with, because you don't know how long.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. So Noah, good answer. Thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you. I'm excited about your future. I'm excited for all the good fishing you have in front of you, and I learned a ton, and I know everyone else did too. So thanks for taking the time to be on the show. This was super fun, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you. Let me know if you're ever out in Helena. Get together, go fish.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. You can learn more about some of the topics we discussed in today's episode show notes. For more fly fishing ideas, stories, and artwork, check out my blog and online gallery at waitoutthere.com. If you want to make Wade Out There a part of your own fly fishing journey, please subscribe and share. Until next time, Wade Out There.