WOT 90: Parallels Between Music and Fly Fishing and the Yellowstone River with Ryan Acker

In this episode we Wadeoutthere with Ryan Acker from Bozeman Montana.  Ryan grew up with a love for music and chasing trout with a fly rod.  As he transitioned into music professionally, Ryan continued to find time to wet a line, while touring with his band The Last Revel.  We discuss music and fly fishing, the beauty and value of being present, and the Yellowstone River.

You can learn about Ryan and his music at the websites of him and his band:

https://www.ryanackermusic.com/

https://www.thelastrevel.com/

For more fly fishing stories, lessons learned, and artwork check out my blog and online gallery at:
https://wadeoutthere.com/

Visit WadeOutThere.com/art for 10% off your first original painting or limited edition print from show host and artist Jason Shemchuk

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Transcript

Jason 0:00

In this episode, we wait out there with Ryan Aker from Bozeman, Montana. Ryan grew up with a love for music and chasing trout with a fly rod. As he transitioned into music professionally, Ryan continued to find time to wet a line while touring with his band, The Last Revel. We discussed music and fly fishing, the beauty and value of being present, and the Yellowstone River. Welcome to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing Podcast. I'm your host, Jason Shepchuk. At Wade Out There we believe fly fishing is special, but not elite, and that anyone can become a great fly fisher if they are willing to go, learn, and teach. Join me as I talk with other fly fishermen and women about their unique journeys into fly fishing, the rivers they fish, and the tactics and philosophies they practiced. For those who can never leave the river in their hearts, this podcast is dedicated to helping you make the memories that keep us all coming back to Wade Out There. Welcome, Ryan. Thanks for being on the Wade Out There podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, thanks for thanks for reaching out and looking and looking forward to chatting.

Jason 1:10

Yeah, I am as well. I'm excited to talk to you. I talked to Trev Juth and he recommended that I that I have you on the show and talk to you. Yeah. And uh because he's out in Bozeman and uh you're there as well. And I was like, oh man, this guy looks great. He's an artist like me and he loves fly fishing. And then I was like, you know, I better listen to some of this guy's music before I have him on the show. So I have like just a shred of credibility when I'm talking to him about fly fishing and music. So I want to thank you for uh giving me engine trouble because my my daughter loves to dance to that, man. Really? Like, yeah, I really like I was playing it in the kitchen making dinner, and I put that song on as I was listening, kind of just kind of find out what Ryan's about. And the last the last revel is your band, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yep.

Jason 1:55

And she runs over and just starts dancing and shaking. And I mean she loves to dance, but that one in particular, she really. It's good music. I I don't know. I won't say I won't say what it reminds me of because I don't want to like you know categorize you into different music or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

But we've heard we've heard quite a few different comparisons.

Jason 2:25

So yeah, I won't compare you because you're your own thing, but I like I like your kind of music. I like your kind of music. How did you start in fly fishing and and music? And how are they connected? Are they are those kind of like do they happen at the same time? Or because I know that you're passionate about both.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, so you know, I I grew up fishing with my family. I grew up in Wisconsin and grew up in southern Wisconsin, and my my family was definitely like an outdoor family. Like we were camping like every week into the summer, and um my dad taught me how to fish at a very young age and um kind of gave me the basics of fly fishing when I was maybe like 10 or 12. I started you know catching panfish on the fly rod and stuff like that. And you know, my dad is more of like a spin fishing guy. So when it when it came to like learning more about fly fishing, I was kind of on my own. Um, but fortunately, like there was a lot of opportunities in southern Wisconsin for it. Um yeah, so I grew up I grew up in New Glaris, which is outside of Madison, Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Cool, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

And uh a lot of small trout streams there. And um that's kind of where I where I kind of first picked up uh fly fishing, fly fishing for trout was outside of there. I was I honestly I think I was like the only kid in my high school who was doing it.

Jason 3:42

I love those stories. I love the story of the person in high school that's going about fly fishing because I remember when I was in high school and yeah, I just didn't have, I don't know, maybe I didn't have the self-esteem to like get away from like everybody else is doing all these other things, and like in my heart, I kind of want to be in the woods, but yeah, I was just doing sports and I don't know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, yeah, high school's a tricky time for sure.

Jason 4:02

It's a tricky time, it's tricky.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

That is something I held on to, and it was like that there was that time before trespassing was really a thing. You know, like I I didn't really, I don't think anybody or never got caught, I'm not entirely sure, but nobody really seemed to give me any trouble for you know hopping a fence and fishing a cow pasture. It was it was it seemed really par for the course back then. Um everybody's a little bit more strict on their uh private land access and stuff like that. But you know, I feel really fortunate to have so many. There were so many little like unnamed creek or creeks around New Glaris.

Jason 4:38

And now that's the driftless region, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Driftless region of Wisconsin, yeah.

Jason 4:42

Yeah, because I've been hearing I've had some guys on the show uh that have talked about that, and it sounds really cool. I mean, lots of little narrow streams and discovery, and it's really an amazing place.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

It's yeah, these these uh huge rolling hills and the bottom of every hill, uh in between every hill is you know, this tiny little trout stream. And um, you know, the fish aren't massive, that's for sure. It's a lot of it's there's not much water, so you're fishing for small trout, but man, when I was 15 years old, I didn't care. I was just so excited. I remember and catching uh catching my first trout on a fly was just just the most exciting thing in the world. And I I it probably wasn't a huge fish, but it was just such a monumental moment for me because it seemed like such a um unattainable goal for a long time, to be honest. And you know, I my first my first exposures to what trout fishing uh uh fly fishing for trout was like was you know, out of these old books of these people out west fishing huge fish in these huge casts on these huge rivers, stuff like that. And it was such like a different world for me in Wisconsin where it's you know it's so intimate. It's like you're fishing a five foot the creek you could jump across, you know what I mean? It's really small. It was just a it was just a different experience from what I thought the rest of fly fishing was like, you know what I mean?

Jason 5:59

I know exactly what you mean. And good, good for you for turning that corner, because a lot of people don't, myself included, because I had the same idea and vision because we talked about this before the show a little bit, but I spent time in Montana as a kid. I went to school in Colorado, and so fly fishing for me was Rocky Mountains, yeah, like requirement for trout fishing, Rocky Mountains in my brain, right? And and just exactly what you just described, and and throughout my Air Force career, I never really got over that, and um, I just missed out on a bunch. And I think it's cool that especially as a young person, that you're able to kind of say, No, I'm gonna check this out.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah.

Jason 6:35

What well, before I ask you this, New Glarus, that sounds familiar. Yeah, that's the beer, right? Yep. You know, it's okay. You're you're you're smiling, like it's it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

It's I you know matter where I go in the country, I tell people I'm from New Glaris, and they're like, Oh, a spotted cow. It's it's so funny how iconic that beer is, and it's such a small town, there's nothing to it, but it's amazing how notable that brewery is to people all over all over the country.

Jason 7:02

I think it says a lot about quality and how far that goes, you know, in a world of marketing, all that other stuff. I mean, it's just good beer. Like I used to brew beer. My neighbor, I used to live in uh Missouri, yeah. And so I'm a fan of the Midwest. Uh, but uh my neighbor and I used to brew beer, and uh he brought that down because he's he's from up in Wisconsin originally, and his brothers would bring that down when they would come visit. And uh so anyway, I just I thought I'd mention that I I like that beer. I like your hometown brew.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

You know, it's funny, it's like you can't get it outside of Wisconsin, you know, like people know you can't buy it outside of the state of Wisconsin. But when I go home, when I drive home, I usually grab a case and bring it back. And I I have this like little pipe dream of essentially smuggling nuclear beer back to home in Montana and selling it for Yeah, like smoking the bandit type thing, right? There's a market here, especially for how many Midwestern transplants there are.

Jason 10:17

Yeah, yeah, there certainly is. I mean, there's always a good market, there's always a market for good beer too. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I I'm curious. Well, first, do you go home do you fly fish when you go home at all? And then also, um, what kept you kind of motivated as a kid to keep going? Because you it sounds like you were not catching a lot of fish in the beginning. So why did you have this aspiration to catch a trout? And and then because it seemed like you said monumental moment when you did like um two totally different questions. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

What was the first part again? I'm sorry.

Jason 10:52

Uh do you fly fish when you go home?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Oh yeah, you know, I still I I still do fly fish when I go home. Um I don't have a ton of opportunities to do it, and it's always too because you know, all my gear is here in Montana at the moment, so I need to like I essentially send my dad home with with some of my like backup gear. So when I go do go home, I get to I get to at least have something to play with. Um backup, yeah. Yeah. Honestly, it's like it's kind of it's it's kind of there's a it's kind of sad to see how much the those little creeks have changed over the last really 10 or 15 years. You know, they're so much more full of silt now than they were before. And um, it's just it's it seems like it's more choked out than when I was fishing there. Um, and you know, that's a that's a whole environmental issue that you know um water water quality and water rights and all that stuff. Um that I don't know if we have time to get into in this show, but um, you know, it things are changing, that's for sure. And I know there's a lot of effort in the state in the Midwest to, you know, protect um protect waters, that's for sure. You know, there's a new movement going on, but it's um there's a lot of there's a lot of agriculture there that um makes that challenging, that's for sure. But um yeah, what motivated me to keep going? I uh you know, I I I'm not entirely sure what it was. I knew I I mean I've always just been just so in love with outdoor sports in general, but fishing specifically. And maybe I'm kind of drawn to I was drawn to the fact that it was hard. Uh you know, I knew it was hard. I knew um I knew not many people did it, which for some reason as a kid really attracted me to it. And maybe that's why kind of why I picked up music as a at a young age, too. Um, but I knew the fact that nobody else was doing it kind of wanted me want it motivated me to try to figure it out.

Jason 12:39

That's cool, man. Like uh that's your way of rebelling as a teenager, like nobody else is uh maybe not maybe that's a bad uh analogy.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, I don't know if that's all level fly fishing.

Jason 12:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably not. Um I forgot to mention congrats on your turkey as well, because you're an outdoorsman, not just a fly fisherman.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, yeah.

Jason 13:01

I have uh spent a long time trying to trying to bag one of those beasts.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

It's it's hard until it's not. It's exactly it's perfectly said. It's really tricky. It's it was like last season they gave me the slip, and I just had such a hard time getting close to a turkey. And this season was like the first freaking 30 minutes of our of our hunt. It was over. It was like they came in on the rope.

Jason 13:24

It was I love it. When I got my turkey, like, yeah, it was the first morning I had gone in. I was like, I'm not getting up super early. I'm just gonna go in. Like I think I got in the blind around 10 and yeah, had a turkey at 11. And then we were done, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

I was like, uh Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed. It was like so anticlimactic. I thought I was gonna have to really work for it this season, and now I'm just like sitting here twiddling my thumbs, like god. I wish I had I wish I had another turkey tag, but I gotta go, I gotta go to a different region of the state to get another one.

Jason 13:54

But that's understandable. Yeah. So I want to talk about your music and how that kind of was was that always intertwined with fly fishing for you? Because I I perceive that it is now, and you mentioned that fly fishing was was difficult and you like that about it. And you know, I I perceive writing music and creating the at the level that you do, you know, to be difficult as well, hard, you know, to sure were those two things connected?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

You know, initially not really. It was initially I didn't quite see like the I don't know. I didn't see I did initially I wasn't aware of the spiritual connection to them both for myself. Initially they were kind of separate, and for a while they were kind of separate for sure. Um yeah, I started playing guitar when I was 15 or so, and you know, kind of immediately started, you know, uh started a band in high school with my friends and stuff like that, and started playing gigs. And it was this kind of same thing through college, is it was it was a passion of mine, but it wasn't like my main focus.

Jason 14:55

Um what was your main focus?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Oh, I mean, I maybe main focus isn't the right word. I was definitely obsessed with playing music, that's for sure. I would I mean it was all day, every day kind of thing, but I did I maybe I didn't see it as I didn't foresee it as like my path until um I was in college. Like a career, I didn't think it was possible, right? Didn't think it was feasible, you know, it seemed really unattainable, and sometimes it still does.

Jason 15:22

Well you're doing it, man. I mean it's been attained. I listened to you on Spotify, dude. Yeah, I mean, it has been attained. I mean, yeah, I I know that you were trying to progress and stuff, but I mean I I think I think you're doing it. Thanks I understand what you mean though, man. Like when when I was a kid, I was artistic and I like to write and paint, and that's one of the reasons I'm getting back to that now that my Air Force career is over. But yeah the concept for me in 1987 or 1986 of like I'm gonna be an artist, like it just that's just not what you like. I didn't think of it that way. It just seemed like, oh, that's starving artist type of thing in my brain. And I don't think I was deterred to the point where I gave up on something early on that you know that I was really passionate about. Because I was also super excited about flying airplanes, and I'm I'm glad that I was able to do that. But um even now, you know, starting now, it's just really you're gonna be a painter, you're gonna paint things, Jason. You know, like yeah, dude, that's my plan. That is what I'm trying to do. So I'm admire you for having done that and put the time in to get where you are at.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, appreciate it. You know, it's been a roller coaster for sure. Um yeah, you know, in in college it started to get more serious. I met some I met some people that I want I knew I had like a really serious my musical connection with. And that was honestly, that was probably the biggest um the biggest um change was meeting people I knew that I could seriously collaborate with.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

And you know, I've I I've always um I'm a I'm a firm believer in like uh the sum is greater than the parts. I think I think a team effort is really that's how you move mountains. So when that started to really snowball is when I started to take it a lot more seriously. Uh and you know, the band The Last Revel started in 2013, um, 2012, maybe. I don't really, I'm not entirely sure when we it was like a serious start, but um it really started to it was like gradual at first, but it started to snowball. Um, and we knew pretty early on that it's something we wanted to like really put some serious time into.

Jason 17:35

Where are you physically located?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

At this time I was living in uh Minnesota. I went to school in Mankato, Minnesota, which is south of the Twin Cities, and eventually we moved up to the Twin Cities um and we lived there, and that the band was based out of there for a very long time. And um yeah, it uh they became very real when we started recording music. We knew we could release. And when we we recorded, we released music, and we got positive feedback that people were actually listening to it. And you know, these are early recordings, and we didn't really know what we were doing. And it when when that first step was taken and it was legitimized, is when um it's things started to get a lot more serious for us.

Jason 18:19

I think it says a lot that you you put the time in, you keep going, and you have the kind of courage to just put music out, and then yeah, because you don't know if it's gonna be good, maybe it's not good, but that's not the end. You just keep putting the music out.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Totally, man. It's like that that internal motivation. And it's the same thing with you know, if you want to draw the connection of like learning how to fly fish, like that first trout I caught was uh like objectively probably not very impressive, but it was it was such a huge little victory for me. And it's like the only way I can be the fisherman I am now is if I caught that first fish, and I like it for a long time as a kid trying to figure it out. It's like nobody you can't. I mean, it's you know, it's it's that's it's that age-old kind of like uh mentality when you learn something, it's like, man, the first thousand times you do it, you're gonna suck at it.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Really suck at it, but you gotta get over it.

Jason 19:12

But you have uh good days, right? And I we were gonna talk about this later, but I'm let's talk about it now. I mean, that's totally like a lot of people even would say that fly fishing is art or there's artistic attributes to it for sure. I mean, definitely feels like that, and people have made that connection, but I you know, just like when you're songwriting or when I'm writing or painting or something, like I don't I don't just have this great idea that I'm just gonna write it all out and it all comes out. There's different drafts, there's editing, there's going back to the books, and and when I started fly fishing, I mean, way back in Colorado, when I really got serious about fly fishing, I guess, uh I I was going places I didn't know where I was going. I know I was I had fishless days, endless fishless days. And then even after I kind of learned how to fly fish when I was going up to Utah, I was exploring and I didn't have any idea. I I would go to a stream and be like, well, there's no trout in this stream, you know, because this is southwest Utah and it's pretty hot, you know. So yeah, I just think that um do you do you see that kind of inspiration? I guess a lack of inspiration, like the requirement to kind of do your work or go fly fishing, even if you're not on point or you're not catching fish, or you know it's not the best day for fishing or or writing or whatever, you're not feeling it today, but you go anyway.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, I mean, I think that's huge. I think that's where that's where people learn the most about whatever skill they're learning, is the days you really get your ass kicked. Um you know, obviously there's there's so much to learn about days that are amazing, but it's like, man, uh for songwriting. If we want to talk about songwriting specifically, it's like, man, you if you don't sit down and just try, it's not gonna just come to you. You're not a lightning rod, you know what I mean? You gotta have to have to sit down and just work at it. And it's like so often I have I mean, I have notebooks full of like shitty, half-thought out ideas. But I I don't think people realize it's like I mean, everybody everybody writes songs differently, but for myself personally, it's like very often I'll borrow a line from something that didn't work, or I'll borrow an idea from something that didn't work. And it's like it's a collection of all those days you tried and it didn't work, and that's that happens often where it's like something, some piece you kind of put in the back burner fits into something you're working on now, and that's you didn't and that's what it needed to kind of flourish. And I mean it's the same, it's the same thing with any outdoor sports for sure. It's like those days where you didn't catch anything, those days where it didn't work out. It's like those are hard lessons to learn, but those are the ones that stick with you. And it it's like that that knowledge compounds on itself really quickly. It's like you know what not to do.

Jason 22:05

Which is that's right. Yeah, I mean, I think this is great, man. And I don't know, maybe some people think this is a stretch, but I think that the the roads are completely aligned, and I see the parallels like clearly. Yeah. Uh and you said it well, man. I mean, and also I think that confidence comes from that too, right? So you you you're able to take from some of the other things that you've been writing and you and that you put it together and you you've you've created something that you're happy with, right? Uh, and then uh I think that's confidence in it's worth the days, it's worth those days to to put in the time. And like you can't if you catch fish if you're not fishing. Like, well, if you don't sit down and write something, man, like it's these are just thoughts in your brain, man. You've got to physically do things.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yeah, you gotta be ready. Well, it's like that it's just that you know, I've heard this saying a lot when it comes to songwriting. Like, well, you're not gonna write anything if you don't have a pen in your hand. And you know, you could say the same thing with a fly rod.

Jason 23:02

Can't catch fish if you're not fishing. I say it all the time, man.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah. And you know, it's like if I I mean I agree with you. It's like I've met so many people now, specifically, and especially in the folk and bluegrass world, like outdoor sports, an outdoor life and music go so hand in hand. I, you know, it's it's those two things are really intertwined, in my opinion. And I think I think ultimately it's like if you want to look at uh, you know, be musically musical inspiration, uh, people use the term the the muse a lot. You know, it's that it's that undescribable like uh source of inspiration. And to me outdoor sports, fly fishing has that as well. And that you know, Mother Nature is the muse. It's it's this undiscindescribable, like you're not entirely sure how it works, but you know you've experienced it. And um the more time you spend like trying to learn it and trying to you know catch the muse, you know, that's where that skill kind of gets built up. Um and that's where that like deep appreciation comes from. And then, you know, and again, like another comparison is like there's no finish line when it comes to. music. And it's the same thing with with outdoor sports and fishing. It's like there's no, there's no first place. There's no goal. It's just it's it's something you take on that has no end.

Jason 24:28

It builds and it's like we talk a lot on the show about people's fly fishing journeys. That was my first question. It's usually my first question to people is what's your fly fishing journey and how's it brought you here? And you know kind of what's next, you know? Maybe I should start asking more of that. But yeah, I just think it's uh there's a lot of progress uh similarities in the progress that you make in the two and I appreciate you bringing those out. Yeah man absolutely do you collaborate in fly fishing in similar ways as you do in music because you said that was important.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah you know there's there's I have a tight knit group of people that I really love to spend time outside with. And I think I think there is that you know there is definitely a connection you can make with people where things really vibe well out in outdoor the outdoor sports. And I've definitely I mean I've been fishing with people I didn't really enjoy like fishing great people but like it just maybe it's just the mentality or the pace or whatever. It just like didn't quite click and I I love those people but it's just maybe it's not the right arena for that.

Jason 25:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

But you know there's there's a couple people a couple there's a small list of people in my life that I do um you know if you want to use the word collaborate or team up I do team up with them for sure. One of them being my wife she's my my wife I fish a lot with her and uh that's that's a pace that's the collaboration in the outdoor arena that I that I really cherish for sure.

Jason 25:57

That's great man you cracked the code on that I'm I'm so getting uh my life my wife loves the outdoors and she loves to fish but uh yeah we've got a small baby and so that's yeah I'm excited to get to be fly fishing with her and our kids and the outdoors and stuff as well. Yeah any any band members yeah because you're in Minnesota you're you got this band yeah and now you're in Montana same band right so did you have to convince them to start fly fishing to move out there or were they already on board no um you know my bandmates have been like well they've been definitely peripherally exposed to it because you know when we were touring so heavy and it was like 2015 to 2018 2019 we toured a lot like 250 days a year we were on the road almost all essentially we didn't have a home we lived out of the van um and I'd bring gear with me and fortunately for us so we have like a decent fan base in the the Rocky Mountain area.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

So I that was kind of my first exposure to fishing in the Rocky Mountains and you know the Pacific Northwest was on tour. We'd have time off and I would have an hour to kill and I'd you know I'd go try my luck outside of Bend Oregon and you know what I mean and it was completely out of my element but I the guys were definitely exposed to it a little bit I no I mean nobody nobody in the band takes it as seriously as I do but everybody definitely appreciates it and has joined me on multiple occasions and uh fishing when we're out on the road and we have some time to kill.

Jason 27:33

That's cool man. Yeah I've heard people say that musicians make great fly fishers.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

I don't know or maybe artists yeah I mean I think you know so much of the support of fly fishing um you have to be in tune with like a certain cadence or rhythm if you want to call it that whether it's obviously your casting takes some certain cadence and rhythm that the river has its own cadence and um it's it's one of those things you can I mean it's the same thing as music. You can learn these skills but ultimately like those best days are when you're not actively thinking about your skills it's more all of your decisions all of your actions are based on intuition and it's the same thing with music. It's like you learn the foundations you learn the scales and you learn you know you learn how to cast or whatever and you learn what how to read the water but at the end of the day it's it's like a culmination of those skills is intuition to me. Um and being present yeah no absolutely that that the necessity being present absolutely is like those two things go hand in hand and yeah it's like I've met so many like I said earlier I've met so many people in the folk and bluegrass world who are these bands are really successful and these guys just absolutely love fly fishing. And it's like I don't think it's a coincidence. It's really common. It's really common yeah like I'll give you I'll give you a list man you like there are people you'd be kind of surprised how many people are like really super into it in the and as far as like my genre either folk bluegrass americano world it it is hand in hand I there's no doubt in my mind.

Jason 29:05

And it's like those two things it's not a coincidence I don't think I think that's something that I look for when I go to the river is being present. And people say a lot of people say I go to the river to escape. And I see that I understand kind of what that means but to me those words don't really describe kind of what what why I'm going you know I mean certainly while you're there you're thinking about other things because you try and catch fish but to me it's more about not getting away from things but getting getting someplace else you know going someplace and really being there and being focused yeah on something like I think that emotion or state uh and we're getting pretty deep on this show but that's great. We got two artists talking about flying fishing art so I love it. But uh you're in that state and it it's just for me it's addicting and it's something that I didn't realize that was so valuable to me when I was flying airplanes and in the like really focused on what I was doing in the jet and what was happening in the on the ground in the battle space and stuff and like I you're not thinking about you you can't be thinking about other things. You're just doing this one thing um I I would imagine or I perceive it to be similar like when you're performing on stage right you're you're not thinking about oh I wonder if they like this song or I wonder you know I'm gonna you've already done the work now you're performing you're present you're with the with the crowd you're with the river like that type of thing I don't know if you see similarities in that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Oh absolutely I mean you know that's something that that I've always really appreciated about those two things in my life is like they're they're the two fastest tracks to that flow state if you want to call it that that that sense of being present that necessity of being present and um I think they both have their time and place where it's like oh performing live for example is like yeah that's that's definitely like a sense of being present but it's like it's a high energy sense of being present.

Jason 31:04

Like there's I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

At least in my world it's like it's it's an energetic presence where maybe like the fly fishing presence the outdoor when I'm outdoors that that presence I feel is a lot more like peaceful you know what I mean?

Jason 31:26

I definitely know what you mean. I mean we're kind of going down a rabbit hole and I I I want to make sure that people I mean you don't have to be an artist to love fly fishing and to go fly fishing and to get a sh a ton out of fly fishing. I mean but I do think that there's something that happens like you're saying when you're alone you're on the river and I think people crave it and especially in today's world man where you never you never you never have to be alone with your ideas with your thoughts with yourself. I think that human beings need to be alone uh you know I just think it's I think it's requirement for like mental health to to have alone time man yeah and uh I think that being on the river definitely gets you there.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

And that gets down to kind of are we going fishing to catch fish or to be on the river in the in the in the alone or the the the connection with nature that we get because people get that from mountain climbing and hiking and kayaking and it doesn't have to be fly fishing either you know yeah absolutely you know it I I think I mean that's just in general I think that's why I mean outdoor sports has I mean certainly exploded in popularity in the last couple years. And I think it's because like whether you're an artist or not like that like intuitive connection to something you don't quite understand is is like important. It's it's like so valuable to our just mentality.

Jason 32:52

And I think people are starting to realize that whatever field you come from whatever walk of life you come from people realize that and like you listed off a bunch of other uh uh activities that people go through and it's like that that uh presence that connectivity that flow state is possible in so many other sports out there um it's it I for me personally it's like it's such a cleansing experience well you like what you just said makes there's a reason why there's Project Healing Waters and Iron Freedom Foundation and casting for recovery right that's not coincidence either they they've tapped into something valuable that is helpful to humans that that um because of what we're describing I think in my opinion absolutely and you know it's in this world it's it's becoming more and more challenging to connect with outdoor spaces um yeah and you know I I know like obviously the sport of fly fishing is modernized in an like in a in a wild way you know it's a very modern sport in my in a lot of ways you know it's not it's not it doesn't feel like an ancient sport really to me.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

It's a modern sport in a lot of ways.

Jason 34:02

But but still even that even through this modernized lens lens it's such an easy it's such a uh like massive connection for people do you think that people are trying to get back to something as well that's maybe a little bit older or there's nostalgia to it you know like especially for young people um yeah you know I think I I I think um I think so many people have taken for granted like you said just being out in a natural space and be quiet.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah I think I think that is something people take for granted and it's and it's something that if you want to go way deep on it it's like it's something that's imprinted in our DNA that I think our culture and modern culture has kind of forgot.

Jason 34:46

I love let's go deep. I totally agree. Not only that but let's go even deeper. I think that uh difficulty challenges things that are hard to do are are are something that are in our DNA that we want and evidence to that is like tough mudder runs and yeah marathons and like what what's driving people to do these things that have no value other than to cause kind of pain and suffering and you have to like get through it and that's like some sort of gauntlet.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah overcome those like mental internal obstacles and yeah that's that you know in a in a world where everything is so easily attained yeah everything is so just right there if you want to nailed it yes it's like there's still some things that are tough to get and those things I'm not surprised are becoming more popular.

Jason 35:35

Yeah like fly fishing like you said in the beginning there's a lot of challenges and you have to kind of work at it and overcome it and I think that as that becomes more valuable then fly fishing uh follows right like that is one of those things that gives people that kind of I've progressed at something that's hard to do. Yeah. And it got me in the outdoors which is a bonus right yeah absolutely I want to talk about music and your band more okay but first I want to kind of cover your band moving to Montana because now you're based out of Bozeman right yeah so actually I'm the only person who lives in Montana in my band.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

We already spread out a little bit and okay you spread out yeah so I have a bandmate who lives in Nashville Tennessee and I have a bandmate who lives in Minneapolis Minnesota.

Jason 36:21

How is this possible?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Explain to me how that works for 15 12 15 years or whatever it's been you you kind of reach a point where you know our musical catalog is there everybody and fortunately with like you know the modern connected world like I can share musical ideas with people you know a thousand miles away and we can we can kind of collaborate in real time so we do a little bit of that um and you know it becomes tricky you know there's a certain there's a certain age of a band where you you know you you have to be in the same town you have to be you're like constantly working at it and we've kind of reached I we've kind of reached this point where we can afford to be in different places. And you know I think a big part of that is uh you know it's we push so hard for so long that we kind of set aside all these other life aspect things. And you know pandemic happened in 2020 hit and we took a hiatus and I'm kind of glad we did because it gave us this like space to just live our lives for a second. And um it's it's that you know if it's a if it's a matter of everybody living in the space same place but nobody is like really happy with themselves or we live in different places and there's a little bit more of a logistical challenge but everybody's happy with their lives that's infinitely more important to me. And honestly I bet you'd be surprised how many bands that are really popular that they're their the bandmates live in different places.

Jason 37:52

Oh I don't know anything about it man I've I'm not very musical I I have no I've never really got in but um yeah I I don't know a ton about it at all. But um what about so do you guys still tour or because I see you're playing music.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah yeah so this is you know this is our first year back actually since our you know our hiatus um and we're doing not doing a ton of shows like I said earlier we we're we used to do 200 shows a year and now we're doing this summer I think we're doing 25. So it's not many but we're kind of choosing our battles um so it's it we're just kind of picking the things we want to do and kind of setting aside all the things that feel more like work. So yeah we're just really we're we're being really choosy honestly which is kind of I mean it's really fun we get to the fun stuff. Oh that's cool man I'm I'm excited for you and yeah and that being said like I have a I I do have a solo career as well um and I play a lot of music around southwest Montana so you know the band's only doing 30 dates but you know I have a a whole slew of dates um you know just solo as well. So you know there's there's multi there's multi there's layers to the the musical career.

Jason 39:04

You're not just out in Montana fly fishing and not doing music unless you're on the 25 days with your band.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Right exactly I mean it is an all it's an everyday thing for sure.

Jason 39:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Um but fortunately I mean I I feel fortunate to live in a space where I can be fishing on an amazing river in like 15 minutes. You know what I mean?

Jason 39:21

Well let's talk about that. Let's talk about fly fishing in an amazing space in out in Montana because like I said in the beginning I love um yeah I just I I love my time in Montana and I always uh enjoy talking about it. But uh you know what what would you say is kind of your home waters or is there a special place that you enjoy fishing out in Montana more than others?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

You know my wife and I really love fishing the Yellowstone River. That's kind of our go-to that there's honestly like there's so many choices around here it's just insane like we've done we've had great days on the Gallatin River which is just in town here we've done the upper and lower Madison it's like it's any direction you want to head man there's just amazing waters. Yeah but yeah I mean I moved I met my wife I was still living in Minnesota she she's been living here in Bozeman for a decade or so and she's also a musician and that's how we met. And um fortunately fortunately for me it's like I mean I moved out here for her but it just also happens to like really coincide with all these other things I love in life.

Jason 40:25

Dude you nailed it man you're playing music married the love of your life living in the mountains I do feel very fortunate with um how I spend my time that's for sure. But let me let me say this real quick also good for you I don't think you get to that place without kind of following following your passion and and or not you know doing the work early on like you said 250 shows a year you know that's that's work. You're doing what you like but somewhere someplace we talked about it earlier you said I didn't think it was kind of a viable possibility or we talked about career choices and things and imagine the other job that you would have done and then now you're you're 35 years old you're 40 um you know I'm 42 and you look back and you say oh man I I really want to do this. I want to do music you know and now you're not able to live in the same ways you have different commitments you haven't built the skill set you can't just start and just be good right away.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah you know I mean I think I I one one um ethos I take with me in my life is it's never too late. I do firmly believe that it's never too late and it I think I think um the what what changes is like what your goals are for what you're starting. You know what I mean?

Jason 41:46

I definitely know what you mean when you say it's never too late to start because I feel like I'm exactly that's what I'm doing. Wade out there is like a couple years old I just started writing I picked up a paintbrush like I hadn't painted since high school literally high school so and I have but but what I'm what I'm curious what you mean is like your goals and aspirations how would those how would that be different?

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Right. Yeah I see what you mean it's like it's I mean it's it was easier for us when we were 22 to go all in and not worry about anything else. But you know if if I had a friend who say was starting to play music right now and they were starting to write songs and like you know I want to get involved with this you know there's so and the there's so many avenues for um our culture rewarding people who want to be creative and put themselves out there. And maybe you know maybe if I had a friend who was starting to write songs at 35, you know it's it's just a one little step at a time kind of thing. Where it when you're 22, it's like yeah dude go all in like you got nothing to lose but at 30 you know at 35 or 45 or what or 55 or whatever it's like yeah write some songs and go play an open mic and like just just see how it feels maybe not quit your day job immediately you know I totally know what you mean. That's the recalibration I'm talking about where it's like you know when you're a kid yeah go all in but you know as an adult take take uh take your steps wisely I don't know I'm not entirely I don't know I'm not trying to like I'm not trying to um I understand what you're saying pursue something you know what I mean I know what you mean but you know I think as adults we are fortunate to have like um like wisdom some wisdom on our side and like approach things properly whereas a kid it's you know you throw all caution to the wind and you just jump in.

Jason 43:45

Hopefully yeah hopefully right um no I totally understand what you're trying to say man and um similar to fly fishing right like it's never too late to start fly fishing if if you see that you're like man I've always wanted to try that but you know just take that second half of the sentence out and just I've always wanted to try that so I'm gonna go try it. Yeah and there's a million reasons why you wouldn't just like there's a million reasons why I don't want to sit down and paint tonight but I'm going to right and you're going to you know just go just go get a starter kit just go find well I don't live around trout streams well you know fish for there's other species there's other things you can do absolutely you don't have to move to Bozeman Montana to get into fly fishing no I mean I mean I think the world of like warm water fly fishing is just exploding too because that's the most attainable thing. You know yeah I have never caught a carp on a fly rod but apparently it's the hardest thing to catch on a fly rod that there is and it's like that I would reward that with more uh skill than you know an 18 inch rainbow trout like man they're everywhere out here that's not that hard you know that's carp though it's like man I only know a couple people who have done that you know what I mean it's a hard thing I've never done it yeah I had a guy in the show uh that was super passionate about carp fishing fly fishing for carp and uh he akinned it to saltwater fly fishing in many ways challenge of kind of spot and stock and presentation and all that and uh I never thought of it that way I never thought of it but it seems pretty pretty cool and yeah yeah I I admire those those uh fishermen a lot who do that really well it's like man that is some hard shit you get one cast if you fuck that cast up you're done you know what I mean that fish is gone so I think I think that's amazing you know yeah it's a whole different whole different game yeah what's something unique about or what's something particularly special about the Yellowstone River that you that you say like yeah that's my that's where I really love to fish.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

I mean it's it's it's in such a beautiful place. And you know I do generally gravitate towards places. I mean fortunately these fish out here live in really beautiful places but like it fishing on the Yellowstone is just so gorgeous.

unknown 46:14

And

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Um I think what what makes it special, I mean, gosh, the population of fish in that river is just really solid. There's a lot of fish. I mean, any any technique you want to use that day on the Yellowstone is viable. It's like you want to throw streamers, like, yeah, a lot of people do that. It's like you want to fish only dry flies, like totally. It's like you want a nymph, like any like it pick your adventure on the Yellowstone, really. It's like I really do feel that way. And obviously, there's specific hatches and specific specific times of year where you know that you're gonna outfish everybody else, but it's like, man, that is anybody's uh like heaven.

Jason 46:52

Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, do you like to prefer to wade it or are you on a drift boat or both or what?

SPEAKER_00 47:01

And you know, I I always it I don't own a boat, I own a canoe, but I don't own a drift boat or a raft. Um I always appreciate when my buddies take me out, but it's just such a different pace. And maybe that's because I grew up, you know, on these small streams in Wisconsin and I grew up walking in. Um but the uh the pace on a boat is something that's it's like I have a blast, but it's it's kind of overwhelming. It's like I forget, I often when I'm on a fishing on a boat, I forget to look up and I forget to like kind of take it in for a second. Um but that being said, like I mean, I've had great fishing days on a boat and I see the advantage of it. But if I was going to choose, like my wife and I are like kind of avoiding getting a boat because we don't want it to change the way we approach fishing because we have such a good time doing a little hike to get in there, and like we can really work a spot.

Jason 47:53

I like that a lot about weight fishing. Yeah, man. Maybe it's because my skill sets are where they're at, but I like I like I like knowing like uh that's I'll give it a let's let me try that again. Let me try that again.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

I'd be another cast.

Jason 48:15

When you're when you're waiting out there, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Yeah, exactly.

Jason 48:20

What species in the Yellowstone?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Oh, it's it's a lot of brown trout and rainbow trout, and then there are cutthroats in there as well, and you know, a ton of white fish. That is one count of those.

Jason 48:31

Mr. Monsieur Blanc, I was out fishing yesterday and I only came up with two whitefish. I didn't fish long, but uh it was just really light takes all day, and I missed a bunch of fish, but I'm sure they were all whitefish because uh that's okay. Yeah, man. Uh whitefish, uh I wrote a blog post about that. Uh don't scuff. Yeah. The white fish. Um, it's called In Defense of Whitefish. Yeah, man. They do fight good. They do fight. Um the problem, I think the the reason I think that the of all the things that I do like about fishing for white or catching whitefish, I don't know that I've ever just said I'm gonna go fish for whitefish, but uh I love that they're native, you know, in most places. I love that they are good fighting fish. Um, but I think what is frustrating is every time I hook into a whitefish, I think I have just an enormous brown trout on. Right. Then and then it's like, uh, it's just a decent sized whitefish. But yeah, so it's it's always a little tiny bit of a letdown because you have this other idea in your brain.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

But that's 100%, I think, where like the animosity comes from with the white fishing world and the mountain whitefish is you think you have a good trout and it's not, and that disappointment is deflates you fish.

Jason 49:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Which is a shame because they gotta eat too, you know.

Jason 49:50

But that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah, I always use it. Honestly, I use it as a decent indicator. It's like if I'm catching whitefish, like I can probably bet that there aren't good-sized rainbow trout and brown trout there. And maybe there's some guys on the who listen to this who'll tell me I'm an idiot, but like generally I've found that like if I'm catching whitefish, I'm probably not gonna catch a good-sized trout because I think that's so you're gonna move on, right? Yeah, uh, like I gotta kind of rethink my situation here because usually I think that those the trout will kind of outcompete the white fish. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my that's my amateur scientist take on it.

Jason 50:25

Uh well, my amateur scientist take is that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I I I was fishing the same section, I caught whitefish, you know. Uh I don't know. I don't know if they kind of school up. I've definitely caught whitefish where I've been catching trout. Yeah. It's not like exclusive. Okay. Um, but I don't know. But that's that's on one river in one place, right? Uh, but I do kind of move on. If I if I've only caught a couple of whitefish in a place, I'll kind of press. Is there a special fish on the Yellowstone that you can remember? Like something that you can look back and say that was a special moment?

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Or yeah, sure. Absolutely. I think um last fall my wife caught just the biggest rainbow trout I've ever seen in my entire life. And um she caught she caught it on a nymph that I tied, which was pretty special. This fish was just so strong. Yeah, it was it was, and she was, you know, she did a great job. And that's something I really love cherishing with my wife is like I would rather watch her catch a big fish than catch a big fish myself because she's just so enthusiastic about it. And she's like, she's so excited, you know.

Jason 51:40

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Um, and being there with her when she caught that and netting the fish for her and getting a picture, and just like, I will we should probably print and frame that photo we have because you can just see it on her face. She's like, This is the coolest fish I've ever caught, and like, yeah, that that to me is like that's easily my favorite instance on the Yellowstone River for sure.

Jason 51:59

Yeah, I caught a my son two days ago, three days ago, he caught uh his like kind of his first fish where he cast, he mended, like he did full up mend, mended, like cast, mend, hook set, and then you know, reeled it in, landed it. Yeah, I netted it, but that was a big moment, and it was similar. Like, I'm so happy to watch his face and I'm coaching him up, like give the rod tip up, you know. And his little arms are just like he's got two hands on the row, he's seven.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Oh my god, that's amazing.

Jason 52:33

Yeah, I'm well I've like I feel fortunate to be in a place where I there's water that's you know, we missed a lot of fish too. You know, we are yeah, like you said, the cadence of I think the cadence when you go fishing with kids is similar too, where you have to kind of it's different than even when you're fly fishing by yourself, it's even slower. You have to just kind of roll with it. But yeah, absolutely. If you could only fish the Yellowstone two days, which two days would you fish it and how would you fish it?

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Two days. Well, I think gosh. That's a tough one. Uh on the Yellowstone River, I think I would uh choose God, I think I'd put both of my days in like the end of July. I'd do two back to back days, end of July, hopper fishing. Uh the like the grasshopper bite in on the Yellowstone, like the day that all those those farmers and ranchers cut their fields is just insane. All those grasshoppers get kicked up, and if you get like you get a little bit of wind, it's like those those fish are out for blood. And it's just in my opinion, grasshopper fishing on the Yellowstone is like kind of the the pinnacle of the sport in a lot of ways. Um it's just like it's so viscerally exciting because those fish just explode on those grasshoppers. It's it's the most exciting dry fly fishing, in my opinion. Um the biggest fish come out to play, like it's and they're really aggressive, they want to beat every other fish to the bite, and it's it's it's just out of this world. So I think I would do both days. I would I would stack my days in July and end of July and early August, maybe.

Jason 54:17

That's fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Yeah.

Jason 54:19

I can't tie a grasshopper, or I haven't tied a grasshopper, I haven't tried to tie a grasshopper yet. Yeah, uh tricky. I don't I tell my son, we don't say I can't, we say how can I? So how can I tie a grasshopper? And and my solution is I tie a colorful uh chubby Chernobyl. I can tie a chubby and they're you know, close enough, you know. And uh, but if I'm gonna come out and fish with you on the Yellowstone, which two flies and uh you know my skill level is intermediate at best, what which two flies would you say is uh should tie up?

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Are you fishing with me in uh July and August or just in general?

Jason 54:55

Uh just in general. Like I know it kind of depends the time of year, but like just a nymph that is kind of bread and butter or um yeah, let's say July and August, because that's when I'm gonna come flip fish with you. If you I'm only gonna come fish during like the primo, these are the best time.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

I mean, those are the days for sure. I think honestly, I think I on average I'm usually fishing a chubby Chernobyl in the summer here in Montana, regardless if it's on the Yellowstone or not. I think that's kind of where I always start. Um and gosh.

Jason 55:26

I can do a chubby.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

There you go. Yeah, I think I like hot pink is kind of my go-to.

Jason 55:31

All right.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Hot pink, chubby. And um, you know, like a beaded hairs ear, it you just can't go wrong. Uh, you know, it's just they're all year round, they'll eat that, you know.

Jason 55:44

Yeah, beaded hairs here.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah.

Jason 55:46

And they don't have to be, they don't have to be super small either, right? Just like 14-16.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, geez, yeah, 14-16 is kind of my the my my uh I tie everything in 14s and 16s. I don't bother to go any smaller.

Jason 56:00

Well, you don't have to because you live in Montana, man.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

But in Colorado, and you'd be like, Yeah, I don't I don't fish much tailwater, you know, the uh the Madison a little bit, and I I'll specifically hit the caddis hatch in the Madison. That's kind of my that's coming up pretty quick. Um, so that's kind of what I I that's when I go to the Madison, I'm fishing the caddis hatch. And I know, you know, and that's the thing out here. It's like, man, there are so many guys who live in Bozeman, Montana who almost exclusively fish the Madison, and it's not really oh totally. I mean, it's it's it's such an amazing fisheries, but it's not I don't really have a ton of experience out there. All my experiences on the Yellowstone, um, and even farther east, I'll fish the boulder a lot.

Jason 56:41

Um'd you gravitate to the Yellowstone and went there and the other?

SPEAKER_00 56:44

My wife's mother, my mother-in-law lives out in Paradise Valley, and my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law live in Livingston. So they're right there. So whether it's for fishing or not, or just in general, we're out that direction a lot. Um, so it just kind of makes sense. We just that's just always kind of where we went.

Jason 57:05

Are you familiar with AD Maddox? I'm not. She's a fly fishing artist, and she is out there in Livingston. Oh, cool. Yeah, I've had her on the show before, and she's been like a mentor to me uh in my art like journey or whatever. But yeah. Uh I think she has a studio. I mean, I'm almost positive she has one out in Livingston. So check it out.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Yeah, it's a what an it's such an interesting community of Livingston where it's it it has attracted and continues to attract artistic people. Like there's a there's a history in that town of like amazing writers and amazing artists uh living there and being there. And now you know there's an there's a new generation of those artists and writers and musicians in the area, and I think it's it's an interesting place. It's like it's a it's a colliding of cultures. I think Livingston's kind of like the forefront of those, like there's there's two cultures. There's obviously more than two cultures in Montana, but there's two main cultures that people know of, and there's like the rural Montana, and then there's like the new Montana.

Jason 58:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Are you in the new are you in New Montana or the or the I I because of my career choice and because of the you know my source of income, I uh I don't want to say unfortunately, I am I am plugged into that new Montana lifestyle because you know a lot of my income comes from playing music. And um, if I lived in the middle of nowhere Montana, that would be pretty hard. Uh oh yeah. So I do live here in Bozeman and I do a lot of work in Livingston and Big Sky and Bozeman here. So I mean, yeah, I'm in that new Montana world, but I I think Livingston is kind of where those two worlds meet, where Livingston still feels like and Paradise Valley still feels like this very rural, very rough around the edges, old world Montana. And and it has this cultural influence to it where it's like those two things are really blended well together, where Bozeman doesn't really have all you know, transplants, and I know I'm part of that. I'm I'm I'm part of that um that statistic. I'm I'm from somewhere else, you know.

Jason 59:12

Right. Well, I'm from somewhere else too, and I am in Utah. So we're all that's one of the that's right, man. That's right. Uh my dad was out in Montana. He's my family's from New Jersey. He moved out in the 70s, early 70s to Montana, and it was all rural then, you know. But uh he would go, I he would say, I yeah, I that's why places like the Gallatin are special to me because I have same childhood memories that I'm making with my kid out on the Gallatin.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Yeah, you know.

Jason 59:40

I mean, I remember going out there, just sun coming up, and like my dad would even say he would go when he was a kid, and there would be nobody. There he would, there was nobody on the Gallatin River. There was nobody there, you know. He was just go out and catch some fish and uh come home.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

It's a changing world, man. Like retactors, everybody everybody cherishes those outdoor experiences now more than ever.

Jason 1:00:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

You know, yeah. So I'm not surprised.

Jason 1:00:07

Do you have a uh a time on the Yellowstone? Or well, first let me ask, you get a lot of wind, you fish in a lot of wind out there. I remember that area being pretty windy. There's the windmills that kind of go like as you're going from Bozeman out to Livingston, it's it can get crazy windy. Is that something you experience on the river much?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um the only only when it's like really blowing will we avoid it.

Jason 1:00:33

Yeah. That's my next question. How do you fish it, or is there a limit?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

There's you know, when I'm looking at the weather forecast and it says like 20 over 20 mile an hour winds, I usually just don't, or I'll find somewhere else to go. But if it's in the if it's anywhere between 10 and 20, we'll just bite the bullet and go.

Jason 1:00:50

So how do you how do you combat that or what how do you fish differently or just suck it up? Or what do you think here?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

I'm more specific about I have some spots on the back of my head, and maybe this is from just doing research and just you know, boots on the ground, but I know some spots that are protected from that southern wind in Paradise Valley. And you know, fortunately, it's like we have some we have uh some spots in mind that wade fishing, and then maybe that's another advantage, is like I can tuck in to these corners that are even slightly more protected and have a great day of fishing where anybody on a boat's just gonna get whipped around.

Jason 1:01:27

Oh yeah, even rowing the boat. I've you know, I remember I've been on the Yakima where it was so windy that we just we just stopped. I just stopped fishing, man. Like there was yeah, and but we could barely get the boat where we needed to be, you know, it was almost kind of like safety because we're not pro row, you know, we're yeah, am amateurs fly fishers anyway, but yeah, it can get crazy. I think that's an awesome point that kind of geo geological or geographic kind of uh advantages that you can use to combat the wind. More so even than casting or or all these other things is you know, find a spot that works and stick stick to it a little bit. And then you can fish a uh, you know, and that's a whole different kind of fishing too, because now you're kind of in a spot and you gotta you gotta figure it out, you know. You kind of rework an area, which is cool too, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Yeah, I mean, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, and it's like I think that's a big uh you know, you kind of just have to go figure it out. It's like I'm fortunate to live in a place where I have options, and uh, you know, I there aren't you know, a lot of people live in places there aren't multiple options. Um, but you know, when it's really windy, it depends on the season, but like I can almost guarantee there's not gonna be an amazing dry fly bite unless you're fishing hoppers or whatever, but like that you know, you're they're not gonna be eaten off the surface, so then I'm putting on a heavier nymph rig, and I can usually muscle that through the wind easier than than a dry fly. I can kind of just more like slap it down. Um, so it just kind of changes the way I fish. But uh, we've I mean that all be all that being said, we have certainly been shut down by the wind out here. Like that's yeah, yeah, it happens, and some days you just well, let's just go home.

Jason 1:03:10

Uh one thing I like about fishing hoppers, and I don't know if this is uh you know technically accurate, but I I I like fishing grasshoppers because I feel like there's a little bit of give in my presentation. You know, that it doesn't have to be I mean, other than like getting it close to the bank, you know, but as far as like mending and movement and clean drift, I kind of that's exciting as well. And it's it's cool too to kind of like experiment with giving it a little action. I don't know, do you do you do you do stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean it um I mean it depends like those big bugs, like grasshoppers and salmon flies, um, and even caddis, I'll let I'll just let them drag at the end of the end of a drift. I'll I'll you know give it some action at the end to kind of see if I can get anybody to come out and and um go after it. But yeah, you know what I'll do, especially grasshopper fishing, um, in the scenario where I'm mending, I'll give it a little bit more juice and get it to kind of like get the the bug to kind of just do a little hop. And you know what I mean? A lot of times you'll do that accidentally if you're fishing small dry flies. Um, but I'm I'm specifically trying to do it with these bigger bugs to give it some just make some ripples on the water.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yeah, well that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

It works for sure, man. Those fish are, I mean, at the end of the day, they're fish. Like they just there are things that will just like scramble their brain and they'll they'll they'll want to eat. And I think and movement is I think one of those things in specific scenarios for sure.

Jason 1:04:40

Are you a nine foot five weight guy out there or do you go bigger?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

Okay, no, I don't go bigger. I've had I haven't had the I haven't had the need yet. I I I I like to say I'm pretty good at fighting fish. And then I mean living out here, you you know, it's trial by fire, you know.

Jason 1:04:54

Well, the nine foot five weight works kind of like all around where you're at.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Yeah, but I honestly like I'll I'll specifically go find reasons to use my three weight.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Because I just love it so much. So it's like I'll fish, I'll especially later in the summer when it gets it's getting hot and crowded, you know what I mean? Like I'll go find smaller creeks, some of these feeder creeks on the Yellowstone. Um, there's a couple that are just so much fun for a three-weight, because you know, you're probably not catching anything over 15 or 16 inches, and you know, that's perfect for the three-weight.

Jason 1:05:24

Those are good fish, yeah. That's not good.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

And and maybe it's maybe it's a call back to like my Midwest roots and these small streams, but like I really love if I can if I can have a day of catching, you know, eight to twelve inch cutthroat trout on a tiny stream and not see anybody, but I'm like, you know, fighting through the brush and stuff like that. It's like I kind of love those days. It's it's just a nice change of pace. Uh yeah, like I said, and maybe it's a Midwest thing where it's like there's still a part of me that really loves that hand-to-hand combat back there.

Jason 1:05:55

Boots on the ground and hand-to-hand combat. Yeah, uh Ryan Acre. Okay. Uh, last question on the Yellowstone, man. Do you remember? And then I want to get back to kind of you and your music and all that and uh wrap it up a bit. But do you have any memories or any day on the river that was kind of like a light bulb moment for you where you learned something that was, you know, really helped you progress as a flyfisher?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Um, you know, I don't know if it I don't think it was on the Yellowstone. There's one day that stands out to me is just as far as like um it was a scenario that needed absolute precision attention to detail. And um my wife and I, it was it was COVID years, 2020, and uh we were, you know, our careers were pretty much put on pause. Um and we were able to grab two walk-up sites into Slough Creek and Yellowstone National Park. Um, so it wasn't it's not on the Yellowstone, but it's you know tributary, the Yellowstone, if you want to call it that. But um, and it was maybe mid-July, and uh it was a big runoff year, so the water was still pretty cold in mid-July. And um it was the we started out, you know, we we hiked up, I don't know, probably five or six miles into the third meadow, I think it was. We were fishing up on Slough Creek, and the morning in the morning it was cold, the fish weren't really biting. And that was that was the first time that was one of the first experiences I had of like watching a hatch really unfold and the water hitting a certain temperature where real things really are start to unfold. Um, and that was a really eye-opening moment to me where it's like, man, any day of the year, you can choose a day to go fishing, and things can change so quickly. It uh these fish are so keyed in on some specific details in their environment, and one of them being temperature. Um, and then it was all of a sudden these fish were it was going off on this PMD catch. And um, we caught a just a great number of fish that day, but it was really tough because they're so choosy up there, and so we had to like really downsize everything, and we had to really kind of go through the the gamut of like finding what they wanted and figuring out the presentation. Unfortunately, we had a window of time where we could do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:17

That was a really that was a really big light bulb moment for me is just as far as like understanding what these western hatches are all about. You know, kind of put in a scenario where you we had to really dial it in. And yeah, that was I really took that that lesson to heart for sure.

Jason 1:08:35

I think for me dry fly fishing I really size is so important for me. Like I I didn't I didn't realize that because I for a long time I'll be like it's blueinged olives. It's I've I've read that there's a blueing olive hash today. Right. Those are definitely blueing olives like why am I not catching fish? Like that is a pretty good presentation and really the sizes uh have helped me.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Yeah it's it's one of those really nitpicky details where it's like man the difference between a like a good day and a bad day is like a size 16 to a size 18. More so even than color for me in my experience just size is so much like uh yeah I mean we've had a similar experience on the lower Madison during the caddis hatch where it was uh we downsized to the we downsized I think it was to it from like a 14 to an 18.

unknown 1:09:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

But it was the wrong color we st we started catching fish. It was like they were hitting like dark bodied ones and all we had were like light bodied ones but it didn't matter. It was like it was all about that silhouette and it's it's stuff like that where it's I you know those are lessons I didn't really have really nailed down until somewhat recently to be honest.

Jason 1:09:40

Yeah. All right. Before I ask you my last question.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

Sure. Ryan how can people find out more about you and your music and your band and uh and uh any upcoming projects you have going on sure totally so uh the bluegrass band I'm a part of is called the last revel and we have um social media accounts all over there and we do have a website so it's the thhelastrevel.com R-E-V-E-L dot com. And um we have a summer of tour dates around the Midwest the Rocky Mountains and the Pacific Northwest and uh as far as like my solo music I uh also have you know all the social medias and stuff like that and um both my band and my solo music is on are on streaming services. So um this should be pretty easy to find and my solo website is just my name so it's Ryanacermusic at uh dot com.

Jason 1:10:35

Cool. And the websites that you mentioned yeah we'll we'll link to those in the show notes so people can find that and then if they go to those websites that's where they can find show dates and show dates and links to music and video and all that good stuff. All right it is good stuff. I like it right off all right uh last question you ready? Yeah I'm ready if you could go back to when you first started fly fishing and give yourself two pieces of advice one more tactical and one more philosophical what would you tell yourself to help you progress as a fly fisher not regrets not things that you regret but just just a little advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

I would tell myself to slow down and I would tell myself to breathe and have fun. Those two are kind of combined I guess but that's good. Flow down and have fun man I think that as a kid I rushed I was I was I rushed and I realize now that like man I mean I'm sure everybody's got a story of like working a run and you casting you cast 15 or 20 times and that 21st time is when you hook that really big fish and like it it happens all the time. I didn't you know that's not something I knew as a kid.

Jason 1:11:46

All right. Well you gave me four you gave me two tactical and two philosophical so that's good man that's both they they qualify for both so there you go very very well said and um hey man I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show. Thanks for uh sharing all your knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:04

Oh I appreciate it man this is I just I love talking about these two things my world's colliding is kind of my favorite thing.

Jason 1:12:10

So yeah well it's been fun for me too talking about art and I know we got deep but uh that's what it's all about that's cool. I like it. I like it. And uh again man I appreciate it and thanks for putting out the music and doing the work every day because I know it's doesn't come easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Yeah well likewise man and thanks for uh thanks for hosting something like this. I think it's pretty rad.

Jason 1:12:33

Thanks for listening to the Wade Out There Fly Fishing podcast. You can learn more about some of the topics we discussed in today's episode show notes. For more fly fishing ideas, stories and artwork check out my blog, an online gallery at waitouthere.com If you want to make Wade Out there a part of your own fly fishing journey please subscribe and share. Until next time, Wait Out There